Wednesday, November 05, 2008

Congratulations Mr President-Elect


I am sure that today in the USA, not a few Catholics are beating breasts.

As an outsider I can't help but think Mr Obama's election is the triumph of form over substance, and rhetoric over policy.

Time will tell, but in the meantime, where was the Catholic vote? and what will the American bishops say?

Well, dear American readers, you and the world have my prayers.

67 comments:

gemoftheocean said...

Why in the hell does this son of a bitch deserve "congratulations?"

He deserves nothing but contempt, and contempt is all he shall get from me, and I will give the same contempt to all those who voted for him.

I will NEVER forget those who betrayed God and Country. I am personally holding them responsible for the disastrous consequences to follow.

nickbris said...

Yes,Thank God we are at the beginning of the end of the nightmare.

Let's hope that that bunch of criminals can be dragged off to the International Court to answer for their crimes against humanity.

gemoftheocean said...

Nick you are an IMBECILE. Are you some sort of actual practicing CATHOLIC? Or just some atheist troll?

You are all world STUPID If you don't know that THE FIRST THING Nobama has PROMISED to do is to enshrine the so called "freedom of choice act" an act abortionist and abortion lovers EVERYWHERE will applaud.

I have HAD IT with leftist "Bush derangement syndrome." You people are festering carbuncles of depravity.

You have ALWAYS hated the USA and you always will. Nobama will come back to haunt you. You pray for the moral destruction of the USA because you think it will bring us down and you into a more exalted position.

Does a Hugo Chavez endorsement sound like a good thing? Castro? Hezbollah" Hamas? They're laughing at the STUPID Americans who voted for this empty suit. So are all the glitterati leftist eurotrash. Terrorists will attack us. Nobama will not retaliate, because he is the Manchurian candidate of the left - a man who raised twice as much money as his opponent - HALF of it from sources unknown. And when we do not defend ourselves, we will not have time to defend YOU. The terrorists will come after you too, because there will be a weak, feckless jackass in an office he has no business assuming.

I feel like telling you exactly what Dick Cheney told Harry Reid on a memorable occasion.

God save the Republic of the United
States from this evil man.

Ma Tucker said...

Can't help but think that America has voted for it's own punishment. Gem, I think the media are really mostly responsible for delivering this result. The bias and failure to investigate this man was staggering to behold. The media failed terribly in their task. They became a tool of a very one-sided indoctrination. In the end we know God has permitted this to happen, as always so that Grace abounds even more. Mass, Confession, Rosary. I really feel for you and all Americans of goodwill. Our prayers are with you. So, so sorry.

Volpius Leonius said...

Woe to you that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as the rope of a cart. That say: Let him make haste, and let his work come quickly, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel come, that we may know it. Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.

Woe to you that rue wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits. Woe to you that are mighty to drink wine, and stout men at drunkenness. That justify the wicked for gifts, and take away the justice of the just from him. Therefore as the tongue of the fire devoureth the stubble, and the heat of the flame consumeth it: so shall their root be as ashes, and their bud shall go up as dust: for they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and have blasphemed the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore is the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched out his hand upon them, and struck them: and the mountains were troubled, and their carcasses became as dung in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

And he will lift up a sign to the nations afar off, and will whistle to them from the ends of the earth: and behold they shall come with speed swiftly. There is none that shall faint, nor labour among them: they shall not slumber nor sleep, neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken. Their arrows are sharp, and all their bows are bent. The hoofs of their horses shall be like the hint, and their wheels like the violence of a tempest. Their roaring like that of a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea they shall roar, and take hold of the prey, and they shall keep fast hold of it, and there shall be none to deliver it. And they shall make a noise against them that day, like the roaring of the sea; we shall look towards the land, and behold darkness of tribulation, and the light is darkened with the mist thereof.

old believer said...

I hope nickbris is correct and we are at the beginning of the end rather than at the beginning of something worse.

I too would endorse the hope that George W and Tony Blair one day face charges for their crimes.

I fear Senator McCain made the wrong choice of running mate and that scuppered his, already weak, chances.

Bonnie said...

All my Catholic friends and family are nervous and I for one have a bit of a tummy ache. Thank you for your prayers - we need them!

Auricularius said...

Gem

So why don't you hold George "Recovering Alcoholic" Bush responsible for making the Republican Party unpopular? Or John McCain responsible for choosing the ridiculous Sarah Palin as his running mate? Or is it the case that the fact that their stance on pro-life issues is closer to that of the Church has made you blind to the faults of the outgoing administration.

By they way:

I am not am imbecile or an atheist troll.
I am an "actual practising Catholic", indeed a daily Mass-goer.
I have supported the (UK) Conservative Party in every general election since I have been old enough to vote.
I don't hate the USA. But neither George Bush or the Republican Party equals the USA, which is something you had better get used to.

And finally ... idle abuse will not convert a single person to the pro-life cause, or save the life of a single foetus.

Mark said...

Karen H,

I too share your disquiet at the prospect of President Obama and for very much similar reason; however there is nothing to be gained by venting your spleen at Nick in such a vitriolic manner. In fact in doing so you reduce the pro life position to that of a ranting banshee, surely this is just ammunition to the pro choice rank and file.

Nick,

What on earth are you talking about? If Bush and Cheney et al are ‘a bunch of criminals to be dragged off to the International Court’ then what of the nation that elected them, are you going to drag all 300M of them off too. Does that include Blair and Brown and the rest of the UK War Cabinet, and if you voted for them does that include you too.

If you dispute that in international law a country has the right to defend itself, then you must also equally condemn those who attacked the USA (but you didn’t do that did you), or is the USA the only guilty party, perhaps you equivocate and take the line, favourite with the BBC at the moment, that you love the American people but not its government, unable to grasp the obvious contradiction implicit in the axiom.

I suggest you make yourself aware of when a nations has lawful recourse to Jus ad bellum, read the Kellogg-Briand Pact, the London Charter (Nuremberg Charter) and the United Nations Charter in which you will see that the USA did not in fact act illegally, contrary to all the Guardian, Independent (NYT) inspired propaganda, even if you still wish to believe that.

For the record I was against going to war but as our allies, if the USA needed support (even though they were late for WW1 and WW2) under the circumstances that outweighed considerations of splendid isolationism. After all you never know when we might need them again.

mom v many said...

Fear is not an option.
It leads to anger....
We are choosing to Love.
One neighbor at a time....I am grateful for what I have and blessed for one more day to tell my children to keep their eye on Jesus.
We offer horrible things to God so I think I'll offer him my pittiful attempt at giving Love.

pelerin said...

Understanding nothing about American politics I shall make no comment, except to say that it is astonishing to contrast the jubilation shown on television at Obama's election with the vitriol shown by certain commenters on this blog.

Incidentally one of the French bishops, who happens to be half Senegalese, has likened the win to the coming down of the Berlin wall. (Today's 'La Croix.')

Michael Clifton said...

I think my previous comment failed owing to incomplete blogger address. If it did fail ignore this repetition.
There is too much vitriol on both sides. Some of the comments go well beyond the demands of Christian Charity. Obama is in because he is charismatic and McCain is too old and worn out. He can now retire to his oven chips.
We shall just have to wait and see how he does and in the meantime pray for his conversion to the Pro Life cause.

alban said...

Like Pelerin, I am deeply saddened by the un-Christian bile spewed forth by some against President-elect Obama.

I would draw attention to the fact that the Holy Father sent a personal message of congratulations to President Obama, which I understand from friends "in Roman circles" is not the normal papal protocol. In other words, it was not expected and done entirely at the wish of the Holy Father.

Today's edition of Osservatore Romano has a very positive article about the election, describing it as "Una scelta che unisce" (A Uniting Choice). The article clearly demonstrates that Vatican(and one presumes the Pope is well aware of the article)is very pleased with the result. Looking over the OR edition published after the election of George W Bush in 2004(Yes,I hoard the old ORs) the tone of the Vatican is much more subdued and certainly not nearly as congratulatory.

I would ask us to remember that St Paul (Ephesians 4)says "Do not use harmful words in talking...no more shouting or insults...do not make God's Holy Spirit sad...no more hateful feelings of any sorts" and James 3 "The tongue is a flame. We use it to bless the Lord and Father but then use it to curse people who are made in God's image...my brothers this must be wrong"

Regardless of one's political persuasion, such poisonous and hateful words as appear in some posts, are NOT in accord with the approach of the Holy Father, the Church, nor Christ Himself.

May God bless, preserve, protect and guide President Obama.

alban said...

To gemoftheocean,

Would you please provide a link to an Obama source (not some anti-Obama source) where the President-elect said that the first thing he promised to do would be to enshrine Roe v Wade? (Though I'm not sure where it would be enshrined as as one normally speaks of enshrining something in the Constitution). Many thanks

Paul, Bedfordshire said...

I think I would echo Fr Cliftons comments. The choice has been freely made and it is proper to pray for those who lead us, that they may do so wisely in accordance with God given natural law.

I would also add that political leaders who authorise aerial bombardment of cities (for whatever reason) may tend to find it hard to be taken seriously when trying to get the pro life message across, especially in an era where the said aerial bombardment is televised live including interviews with the survivors.

Clare A said...

As Fr Blake says, this is a victory of form over substance. Does anyone really know what Obama stands for, other than abortion up to birth and gay marriage, with a bit of feel-good green stuff thrown in?

Does he have the experience to be president? I get the feeling that some are elated because of his colour, not his ability. There are some black Americans who would make splendid presidents, but I am not confident that Obama is one of them.

I am concerned by the sheer lack of knowledge we have about this man, and the hundreds of millions paid by his campaign.

I have lived in the USA and it is very dear to me. Will pray that things are not as bad as we fear.

gemoftheocean said...

The Nobamatons are getting exactly the amount of respect they deserve which is ZERO, they will bring down punishment on ALL of us.

Michael Barratt said...

I agree with Pelerin. I've seldom read such an intemperate rant and it is deeply depressing that such vitriolic words should be written by a Catholic. If such views are typical (and I pray that they are not) thank God that the President Elect does not represent them

Volpius Leonius said...

Perhaps if you realised that we are about to see 30 years of pro life work to limit abortions thrown out by Obama through the enacting of FOCA.

This will among other things allow babies to be murdered by being stabbed in the head with some scissors and having their brains sucked out or by been born and then been left to die in a room out of the way you would understand the strength of feelings against this evil man.

To not get angry in the face of that is as far as I am concerned a sin, if more people got angry about it it wouldn't be happening and over 40,000,000 of Gods children conceived in the US wouldn't be dead right now.

alban said...

Dear gemoftheocean,

I still await the website for which I asked to back up your statement on President-elect Obama's alleged intention to "enshrine" abortion.(thanks, in advance).

Also, please remember that the philosophy of "..they will bring down punishment on ALL of us" implies that God will punish the US for electing Mr Obama as president (or for permitting abortion, gay rights etc) is something one hears from fundamentalist Protestants on television - but it a position totally foreign to Catholic teaching. I feel confident that you agree one cannot pick and choose which Catholic beliefs to hold and which to ignore.

Laurence said...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0xkT_W5l9-k

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Md2bf9DNVB4

Good clips of the black American president the US could have had, had the Republicans nominated him. But then being a Catholic who is genuinely pro-life, he didn't stand a chance. Obama won't get assassinated. This guy would have.

Ma Tucker said...

Alban

"If we look at history, we are forced to recognize that it is not rare for inconsistent Christians to be cold and rebellious. As a result of this, although God never fails his promise of salvation, he has often had to resort to PUNISHMENT."

Pope Benedict XVI Oct 08.

Henry said...

What a rotten choice the USA had. It seems to me the candidates were as bad as each other. But why was that I wonder? Whoever had got elected, the country is still going to be run by Wall Street in league with the corporate military-industrial complex. Which is why some of us really do not like the USA.

Cat said...

Alban, here you go. This short clip contains the portion of a Q&A session after his speech to Planned Parenthood in which Obama states that the first thing he will do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA).

The intent of FOCA is to nullify all Federal and state limitations on abortion. Obama does not have to "enshrine" it; he just has to sign it. And he stated quite clearly that he will.

You can also watch the full speech (without the end Q&A) to see what else Obama had to say to Planned Parenthood.

Marc Datz(Ukrainian Greek Catholic)(US) said...

I voted for President-elect Obama, because we needed a change and I am a Catholic Democrat. It's too bad that elements of the Democratic Party support abortion and the gay life style, but the Democrats have always supported issues which are dear to us Catholics: welfare, socialized medicine, access to education, anything to help the poor and working man, etc.. Labor reform ideals, that were put forth by Pope Leo the 13th at the start of the 20th century, were realized in the United States by the Democratic Party, starting with President Wilson. In the old days the Catholics always voted for the Democrats, because that was a vote for the people, not the elite few. Bishops and priests urged Catholics to vote Democratic, till about the 1970's when the Party began to support abortion and gay rights. It is sad that abortion and the gay life became social issues on the level of poverty and education as part of the Democratic Party platform. Other issues, such as anti-war and anti-death penalty, make it important for Catholics to remain Democrats. There are alot of us, in the United States, who are fighting against abortion and promotion of homosexuality and still are Democrats. We belive in God and are praying for guidance for our new Democratic administration and Congress.

In regards to the comments of 'gem of the ocean', a Catholic should not make those kinds of comments on blogs, web sites and in general! Most Democrats have not betrayed God and Country!! Let's pray together, not curse one another out!!! Peace and love to all!!!

gemoftheocean said...

Alban: You illustrate PERFECTLY the lazy electorate. Just let the 4th estate spoon feed you what you need to know...never mind a simple search of youtube would have easily led you to these vids I used on a blog post.

Check out the vids on this post then let me know again how "nice" I am supposed to be with evil men. I guess Hitler was "nice" because he loved his dog.

To NOT get angry is a sin. You might want to remember the occasion when Jesus turned over a table or too. Ooooeee, naughty. I suppose you wouldn't have invited him into your drawing room.


Maybe if people studied history a little more they'd realize that yes, things CAN "happen here."

Do some of your own homework and google "Niemoller" and "came for me"

Apparently more than half of the US electorate can have watched people jump from 100 story buildings so they can be alive a few seconds longer than die in a burning building - 3000 people die in front of their faces, but the have amnesia and think empty suit Nobama has the guts to respond to those who'd do the country harm.

Every terrorist group in the world thanks that stupid voters. Damn right I'm angry.

gemoftheocean said...

Paul, then I guess it was lucky for Britain that the Germans declared war on the US. I guess it's okay if US forces bomb cities to save YOUR hides a la WWII, but Arabs deserve to live under terrorists. Is that what I'm getting here?

Clue: Don't mess Uncle Sam and Uncle Sam won't Mess with you,

As for the pope, I'd have been more impressed if he'd said: "I'm sorry US catholic ignored church teaching re: abortion and elected this empty suit who will undo the gains the US pro-life movement took decades to achieve. I wish people would stop being cafeteria Catholics."

THAT would have impressed me.

gemoftheocean said...

Marc, you've betrayed God and Country. You're hallucinating if you think we have to buy the demo party line of keeping people on the welfare plantation. Please don't call yourself "Catholic" because Catholics don't vote for someone they know who supports infanticide. There is NO wiggle room. Was there something you missed this past summer re: all the bishops that read the riot act to Biden and Pelosi? Or are you just sticking your fingers in your ears singing "la-la-la I can't hear you." The democrat Party has been rotten to the core for decades.

Delia said...

Bravo Father Mildew and well said Marc Datz!

alban said...

Dear Cat, Many thanks for the 2 links; they are much appreciated.

I don't care for the short clip YouTube approach, so I read the full speech as I believe one should; it did not make good reading.

My fervent prayer for President-elect Obama is that his heart will be softened in this area before he assumes office in January. I'm sure that he is a good man; he certainly prays and attends church....and God's grace is immensely powerful. One should also pray that the FOCA never even reaches the desk of any US president.

LF said...

gemoftheocean

I understood that Catholic teaching was not don't vote for someone who supports abortion, but don't vote for someone BECAUSE they support abortion. Quite different things, otherwise we might end up voting for someone like Mao Zedong or Ceausescu, simply because they opposed abortion.

old believer said...

Clearly some of our USA cousins are very heated about the election result. As the result was so decisive for President-Elect Obama it does suggest most Americans were fed up of George W.

What I hope is that Obama will be more realistic with regard to Middle-East politics and, in particular, will not share George W's myopia when it comes to the Palestinians. Whilst abortion is clearly morally wrong Israeli military slaughtering Palestinian children and infants is equally repugnant. Palestinian children have been created in the image of God too.

A sensitive repsonse to the volatile situations in the Middle-East notably Palestine and Iraq by Obama would be a huge move towards peace.

gemoftheocean said...

Alban: What evidence do you have of him being a good man? Because he sat in the church of a racist black liberation theology preacher for 20 years? This is supposed to be the man who is supposed to be "sharp" "smart" "articulate" "compassionate" "presidential timbre?" He doesn't know that this racist is preaching "G**damn America" Oh. Spoon fed, I guess you need someone to search out a video for you. Of course, some eurotrash will have the same sentiment, so you wouldn't particularly bat an eye and see anything wrong with it.

Oh, BTW, I loved his little slip about "my Muslim faith." How human of Hussein Obama - just like you or I would slip and say "my Rastafarian faith." But here's Nobama and his cute slip up. Didn't get much play in the lamestreme press. You can bet the media would have been all over McCain had he said something like "My mormon faith." Oh. But must have kid gloves treatment for "the one." No questions please. I suppose everyone has terrorist friends who've bombed the pentago. Maybe in your circles they do, so it's nothing unusual.

Henry said...

Gem,

If Catholics refused to vote for anyone who supported policies that were contrary to Christian teaching, they would not be voting for any of the British or American parties, nor even for the so-called Christian Democratic Parties they have in Europe. They probably would not be voting for anyone. Perhaps they shouldn't but what does that say for democracy?

C.L. said...

Obama voted four times to allow infants born alive to die in soiled linen closets and hospital rubbish bins. He argued that recognising their human personhood would undermine Roe vs. Wade. He complained bitterly when the Supreme Court upheld the ban on late term abortions. Because as we all know, there's nothing like the Changey Hopey goodness of shoving a pair of scissors into a baby's brain. Yes We Can! Anyone who supports this man has more or less ceased being a Catholic. It's that simple.

Obama apologists like to say that Benedict sent Obama a private note of congratulations. That's nice. The Holy Father has also made it PUBLICLY plain that Catholics should not vote for candidates who support abortion.

President Bush overthrew the worst mass murderer of the late twentieth century and has saved more African lives than any other man in history. Lefties Bono and Bob Geldoff will back me up on that. He has never reacted to or complained about the disgusting, un-Christian vilification he has been subjected to for eight years. He is flawed but he is a far better man than Barack Obama.

Incidentally, is everyone aware of how Obama rose in politics? Well, he got all of his opponents disqualified on technicalities to be elected to the Illinois State house. Then he took advantage of two sets of sealed divorce papers relating to two opponents being leaked to the media and he was off to the US Senate. As a candidate, he lied about campaign finance and went private, accepting over half a billion dollars in donations - much of it raised illegally and from unknown sources. Agent of Hope, my Irish-Australian bottom. He's a good looking hoodlum.

I wish America well. I hope Obama falls flat on his face.

Today's edition of Osservatore Romano has a very positive article about the election, describing it as "Una scelta che unisce" (A Uniting Choice). The article clearly demonstrates that Vatican(and one presumes the Pope is well aware of the article) is very pleased with the result.

Rubbish. It's diplomatic boilerplate from the same boneheads who arranged for John Paul II to meet with Tariq Aziz - a man blood-splattered from genocide and slaughter.

I agree with Pelerin. I've seldom read such an intemperate rant and it is deeply depressing...

You're a better man than Obama.;)

He listened to racist, anti-semitic rants in "church" for 20 years before thinking better of it when his nutcase religiosity was exposed.

Oh, and this just in:

Barack Obama Pushes Abortion on Day One With Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff.

In July 2007, Emuanel voted against an attempt to stop taxpayer-funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business that brings in over $1 billion annually by doing 25 percent of the abortions in the United States.

As a Congressman, Emanuel has voted against upholding state parental involvement laws allowing parents to know when their daughter is considering an abortion. He voted for making Americans pay for abortions at U.S. military base hospitals, and voted for funding a United Nations agency involved in the forced-abortion one-child family planning policy in China.

Emanuel also repeatedly voted against the ban on partial-birth abortions and opposed the bill to protect pregnant women and their unborn children, like Laci and Conner Peterson, from violence...

In the House, where he is the fourth-highest member of the Democratic Party leadership, Emanuel also voted to force Americans to pay for embryonic stem cell research and voted for a measure that would have allowed human cloning.


Well done, Douglas Kmiec and co. Hope the appointments you've won as Catholic house-slaves in the Obama Administration were worth it.

Cat said...

Alban:My fervent prayer for President-elect Obama is that his heart will be softened in this area before he assumes office in January. I'm sure that he is a good man; he certainly prays and attends church....and God's grace is immensely powerful. One should also pray that the FOCA never even reaches the desk of any US president.

With respect, Alban, President-elect Obama has voted against providing medical care to infants (not fetuses) who survive botched abortion attempts. This is because the pro-abortion view is that a woman who chooses to have an abortion is entitled to get a "successful" one. That is, a woman who wants an abortion must be guaranteed that the child will die. That is not something a good man could even condone, let alone support and vote for.

Further, the church that Obama had attended for over 20 years is filled not with Christian love but with unbridled hatred for America and for white people. Not long after 9/11, his pastor called on God, not perhaps to help us Americans to see some error of our ways and to repent, but to damn us to Hell. Was that a Christian act?

The truth is that Obama is simply a politician. He aligned himself with the hateful Reverend Jeremiah Wright for the political backing it would give him with the black community in that area of Chicago. For the same reason of gaining political support, Obama aligned himself with unabashedly unrepentant terrorists William Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn. Many Democrats might be surprised to learn that Ayers and Dorhn dedicated one of their early books (about 1974) to "political prisoners" in the US, and listed among those was Sirhan Sirhan, the murderer of Democrat icon (and Catholic) Robert Kennedy. This is because Ayers and Dorhn are not Democrats (or democrats); they proudly report that they are communists. They want to destroy the American system and replace it with Godless,communist totalitarianism. First, they tried bombing us into submission; now they are trying infiltration through the schools and political offices.

And finally, anyone who voted for Obama has guaranteed that FOCA will be signed into law. Period. And Catholics have no excuse that Democrats are better at giving welfare to the poor. Government confiscation of private property, including hard earned income, in order to transfer it from one person to another is not Christian charity. It's theft.

I, also, will pray for our now-President-elect --- not that God will damn him to Hell, as his pastor prayed for me --- but that he will receive the grace of God to lead our country such that His will might be done.

Mark said...

Alban, from your posts you seem at first be unaware of Obama’s policies on life issues, then in disbelief challenge those who had informed themselves if his pro choice stance, to prove their assertions and finally be somewhat surprised at what they said was in fact true. Did you seriously believe that people would make up such outrageous charges if they were not true?

Now perhaps it is just the mindset of some people (myself in particular) but were you not suspicious of a man who represented a party notorious for its historical promotion of abortion, surely you looked into this as you did other matter in order to make a decision on an informed conscience.

Which after all is what Catholic are required to do as you say ‘one cannot pick and choose which Catholic beliefs to hold and which to ignore’ one has a duty to educate oneself about the candidates, its Catholic teaching - see CCC#1790 on.

Just a point on your assertion that God punishing the nations is ‘a position totally foreign to Catholic teaching’. Not sure I can agree with that see Isaiah 13-23, Psalm 94:10, Zechariah 6, Matt.25:32 – 33, Rev.20:2-3. It is Catholic teaching that nations have been judged by the Lord and shall be again, even if the word nation can be interchanged with tribe or a people. Is it happening now? Well maybe Obama is the punishment, after all we had Blair. Is the message I give you life but if you want to kill the unborn, I’ll let you do it in such numbers that in time your nation will totally collapse. Well it’s just a thought.

AMDG

Clare A said...

People who justify voting for Obama on the grounds that abortion is only one of many issues need to remember Mother Teresa's injunction: approval of abortion desensitises the conscience to the point where all human life becomes devalued. If Obama supports the disgusting FOCA then he is a breath away from advocating euthanasia, and from that to just about anything. It's a creeping thing.

Cardinal Ratzinger strongly advocated the denial of communion to pro-choice politicians and those who give them comfort. There will be long lines for communion this Sunday, as usual. If people had better catechesis, there would be long lines at the confessional instead.

We hear a lot about Obama promising 'change'. Well, Tony Blair promised in 1994 that things could only get better. They didn't. People who think that under Obama there will suddenly be jobs for all, world peace and unlimited turkish delight are naive.

Those people who rejoice in Obama's election have yet to tell us what he stands for. Does anyone really know?

Obama's campaign raised more money than any in history. Where did this money come from and what do his benefactors want? I think we will shortly find out.

Auricularius said...

Gem

You have now extended your hatred from President Obama to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest degree about everything. I invite you to reflect on the following texts and consider the state of your soul.

"Be not quickly angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of a fool". Eccl 7:10 (Vulg).

Deliberate hatred is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil. Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven." CCC 2303

Oremus pro invicem

Paul Knight said...

Marc Datz,

All the things you mention are indeed important issues but they are not all equal. Abortion is the greatest evil which faces America for two reasons. Firstly, scale. One million babies are killed by abortion every year in America, and Obama is about to make it even easier. Secondly, it is a direct attack on innocent human life. Just war arguments, for instance, most definately can be misapplied in good faith, yet such a person knows innocent human life may never be deliberately destroyed. However, abortion always involves the innocent destruction of human life.

Volpius Leonius said...

"As the result was so decisive for President-Elect Obama it does suggest most Americans were fed up of George W."

Bush wasn't standing for election if that's why they voted for 0bama they are idiots McCain is nothing like the man Bush was.

Anyone who can calls themselves Catholic and support 0bama given his PROVEN PREVIOUS ACTION TO FURTHER THE CULTURE OF DEATH is lying about been Catholic as far as I am concerned.

No wonder the Catholic Church in the UK is so messed up if what I am witnessing here is waht passes for Catholicism in the UK, all you pro Obama "catholic's" make me feel physically sick. Go and play with the secularists and stop pretending to be Catholics your presence is choking the life out of the Church.

Instead of pontificating about the "evil" Bush and "evil" war how about you find out the address of your local abortion provider and go down their and try and stop the blood been spilt in your own backyard?

No that would require you to actually care enough about God's little ones been DELIBERATELY MURDERED EVERYDAY to actually physically take action. It might result in confrontation, now we cant have that can be, its not the way polite people behave now is it?

Shame.

Henry said...

Anyone would think from these postings that Obama is advocating compulsory abortion. It seems to me that there are just a lot of people in the USA who are in favour of killing unborn children and anything that moves. As there are everywhere else. That is when they are not practising usury and destroying the natural environment through rapacious practices. So if the government is elected by a democratic process, then the politicians who are in favour of these things will gain power.

This is to posters from the USA - instead of critising Obama, it seems to me that more effort needs to be put into explaining to your fellow countrymen the difference between right and wrong which an awful lot of them don't seem to know, despite the claim that the US is Gahd's Own Country. Which is an odd notion anyway seeing that it was created by stealing land from aboriginal peoples, killing them off and importing people and selling them as slaves so that the white immigrants didn't have to work.

Volpius Leonius said...

Let a real Catholic tell you Judases just what Obamas election is:

Priests For Life

"Barack Obama has been elected the new President of the United States. And this is one of the biggest mistakes that the American people have made in the entire history of our nation." Father Frank Pavone

You all need to unhook your brains from the Main Stream Media, they are filling your head with the Secular Culture of Death and it is becoming who you are.

Take the Red Pill.

old believer said...

"Bush wasn't standing for election if that's why they voted for 0bama they are idiots McCain is nothing like the man Bush was."

Gosh, I am glad you are able to understand that. Most Americans were clearly sick to death of George W's foreign policy and the nadir the USA has descended to because of it.

For what it is worth, if I were a US citizen, I probably would have voted for Senator McCain who is cleary a very rare thing in being an honest and decent politician.

Instead of people like you denouncing people who don't agree with you and considering yourself better and spiritually superior than others why don't you consider that if you were more reasonable in your arguments more people would be swayed about abortion. As it is people like you come over as single-issue obsessed 'nuts' and I am sure your attitude results in more, not fewer, such crimes.

Volpius Leonius said...

"consider that if you were more reasonable in your arguments more people would be swayed about abortion. As it is people like you come over as single-issue obsessed 'nuts' and I am sure your attitude results in more, not fewer, such crimes."

We have been trying reason for decades, guess what people don't listen to reason ;)

Indeed I am single issue because I have my priorities right and I am nuts about babies deserving to live instead of been murdered. Maybe if you actually reacted to abortion in a way that showed you actually believed it was murder more people would take the pro life movement seriously.

Consider this, how would you react if one of your children was murdered? Does that match how you feel about abortion? If not now you know why no one takes people who say abortion is murder seriously, not enough people act like it really is. An Image trumps words and reason as sad as that is.

As for your charge that I am to blame for abortion, well I will let that pass as it is so obviously your emotion speaking rather than your reason.

old believer said...

"As for your charge that I am to blame for abortion, well I will let that pass as it is so obviously your emotion speaking rather than your reason."

Please don't try cheap rhetoric to distort what I said. What I actually said was "your attitude" not that you were to blame for abortion.

I am unfortunate not to have children of my own but if I did I would bet I would feel the same way about them as the Palestinian parents who saw their children slaughtered by Israeli military. Having a soldier's boot crush a child's head is quite as heinous as anything an abortionist does.

There is plenty of murder going on, other than abortion, that has had the tacit sanction of the Bush regime for years.

Volpius Leonius said...

"Please don't try cheap rhetoric to distort what I said. What I actually said was "your attitude" not that you were to blame for abortion."

Still an unreasonable statement, you think seeing someone upset about abortion inspires people to go get pregnant take their child to the abortion clinic and then inspires the doctor to kill that baby? I thought you were a reasonable man, that is not a reasonable statement.

"I am unfortunate not to have children of my own but if I did I would bet I would feel the same way about them as the Palestinian parents who saw their children slaughtered by Israeli military. Having a soldier's boot crush a child's head is quite as heinous as anything an abortionist does."

Important difference with regards to the Obama discussion.

1. They are not proportionate due to the huge chasm between the number of babies who will die in the 4 years Obama is president through abortion and the number who will die in Israel/Palestine. This reason alone should be enough.

2. We know Obama is going to lift all restrictions on abortion through FOCA, so we know he is going to up the abortion rate. We don't know that he is going to solve the problems in Israel/Palestine, in fact I think that is highly unlikely, so a vote for Obama does nothing to sort that out. A vote for Obama is not a vote to stop the death of Palestinians making the Palestinian issue irrelevant in this discussion.

3. I do not believe it is Israeli policy to deliberately shoot Palestinian children, it is however Obamas policy to deliberately stab children in the head with scissors and suck their brains out of their skulls.

Like I said before unplug yourself from the liberal main stream media and focus on what you know is fact. You should know by now from the lies they tell about Christianity that they cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

Now I will say again, people should be angry about abortion and that includes those who support and enable abortion to happen. That means people who supported Obama, their votes were a vote for abortion whether they care to admit it or not that is the effect it is going to have were it matters, in the abattoirs where babies will now be slaughtered like cattle.

epsilon said...

"instead of critising Obama, it seems to me that more effort needs to be put into explaining to your fellow countrymen the difference between right and wrong which an awful lot of them don't seem to know, despite the claim that the US is Gahd's Own Country. Which is an odd notion anyway seeing that it was created by stealing land from aboriginal peoples, killing them off and importing people and selling them as slaves so that the white immigrants didn't have to work."

That's them in a nutshell, Henry!

They seem to be so eaten up with hatred, they bring shame on the word 'catholic'.

Father, I am very disappointed you have allowed such a level of vitriol to be spewed out on your blog:(

I pray that Barack Obama, within the constraints of leading a government that is controlled by the moneyed, will find ways of bringing justice to the USA and the world.

I pray that these bigoted 'catholics' in America might actually find the humility to speak politely to their new president, explaining what they personally are doing to help people eschew abortion non-judgementally, and asking for more humane legislation for the most vulnerable people.

epsilon said...

"instead of critising Obama, it seems to me that more effort needs to be put into explaining to your fellow countrymen the difference between right and wrong which an awful lot of them don't seem to know, despite the claim that the US is Gahd's Own Country. Which is an odd notion anyway seeing that it was created by stealing land from aboriginal peoples, killing them off and importing people and selling them as slaves so that the white immigrants didn't have to work."

That's them in a nutshell, Henry!

They seem to be so eaten up with hatred, they bring shame on the word 'catholic'.

Father, I am very disappointed you have allowed such a level of vitriol to be spewed out on your blog:(

I pray that Barack Obama, within the constraints of leading a government that is controlled by the moneyed, will find ways of bringing justice to the USA and the world.

I pray that these bigoted 'catholics' in America might actually find the humility to speak politely to their new president, explaining what they personally are doing to help people eschew abortion non-judgementally, and asking for more humane legislation for the most vulnerable people.

Fr Ray Blake said...

"Father, I am very disappointed you have allowed such a level of vitriol to be spewed out on your blog:("

I am learning,
but you are right it is becoming a bear pit.
Don't you all think this lack of charity is actually a manifestation of the Culture of Death?

Volpius Leonius said...

I'm from the UK epsilon just so you know its not an American thing ;)

Very strange support the pro abortion guy condemn the pro life people, very strange Catholics in the UK I guess.

Yes indeed Father its a manifestation of the Culture of Death, the culture of death is in the Church and it seems we all want to shake its hand and sit down to tea with it, how very well mannered of us.

Marc Datz(Ukrainian Greek Catholic)(US) said...

It's hard for me to understand why some Democrats and liberals, who are against the death penalty, war and other social injustices, are such ardent supporters of abortion. It probably boils down to the American ideal of "Freedom of Choice", which is a critical part of the American Experience. The abortion "Freedom of Choice" is probably a result of the before mentioned "Culture of Death". Does that make sense people?

Paul, I agree with you that abortion is the number one evil, but how about the other social injustices! Do we give them up to concentrate on abortion? Is that fair? WE HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THEM ALL!!! Pray for the fallen away Democrats.

Delia, thank you for your kind words in this "Culture of Death" arena.

Father Ray, if we could throw around insults here on a Catholic site as if it's going out of style. No wonder the rest of the world is so desensitized towards the abortion issue. "CULTURE OF DEATH" PREVAILING!!! IS CHRIST COMING SOON? Let us do what we can, so we could be ready when HE comes!! WE NEED PRAYER MORE THAN EVER!!! Peace and love!!!!

gemoftheocean said...

If being against abortion is "judgmental" then I'm proud to be labeled "judgmental."

I had the experience last week of finding out that one of our prominent parishioners who is educated enough to know better supported "gay marriage" with the
"reasoning" that "some fo them make just as good parents as straights... why should we push our morals on them?" She's got at least one young son convinced that "a family is whatever grouping you want it to be."

[How about them defining deviancy down and pushing their morals on US?]

this is what I mean by "I am not TAKING this crap anymore" without a fight. I am NOT going to be "polite" in a "Well, you like chocolate and I like vanilla, let's just let it go" way.

There was a reason I had a blog post re: "It's not the 7 commandments and 3 suggestions."

The enemy outside is a formidable, but expected one. How much worse the enemy within .. not only are they themselves corrupted, but they've also taught their impressionable children to the point of hanging a millstone around their own necks and threatening the proper formation of the children they created and their own posterity.

Such people should stop treating the church as a bowling club with no consequences to membership. It saddens AND sickens me. I'd always assumed the lax ones were the ones that didn't bother going to church, etc. [Granted everyone sins and stumbles, but at least make an effort!] But to find them going up to communion without a care about inconveniencing evil has become my own breaking point. I Have HAD it with "polite society" trying to smooth everything over with an after dinner mint.

Better have it out NOW, before millions more die in abortions --- all with help fueled by so-called "catholics." I say pull the metaphorical hand grenade pin and challenging these cafeteria Catholics. Better to have wounded feelings than millions of more dead babies.

old believer said...

"Still an unreasonable statement..."

In your view perhaps but not in mine. Having worked for many years in London with NEET kids I can assure you that any girl with an 'unwanted' pregancy would not respond favourably to your stance.

One can only dialogue with people where they are; if people don't share your views they are hardly ever likely to do so if all you can do is condemn them.

Instead of telling me, or anybody for that matter, to 'unplug' myself from anything I suggest you try taking a broader view of the moral landscape.

Henry said...

No. I think it is a lack of, to put it as politely as possible, perception. Abortion is as ugly as anything can get and it is easy to engage with the issue at an emotional level, though unfortunately not easy enough for a lot of people who seem to lack a basic human capacity for imagination (which is a prerequisite for the culture of death to flourish).

War is easier to tolerate as it takes place at a distance, and these days agression takes place at a distance too, with little in the way of hand to hand engagement, the whole being directed by politicians who have never had front line experience.

When it comes to social and structural sins such as usury, the transgressions are clean and tidy - it all takes place these days inside computers, but the misery caused exists just the same, often being of precursor and cause of wars, poverty, hunger, homelessness, etc. So they are very much out of sight, out of mind, and demanding a sophisticated understanding to realise that what is going on is wrong, even though it is contrary to Catholic teaching. So they are tolerated and we end up with pick-and-mix Catholicism.

The US is also afflicted by the grave error of Libertarianism, which was given renewed force at an intellectual level in the 1970s by the US philosopher Michael Nozick, whom I have heard praised by a member of our own congregation who ought to have known better. This is probably the origin of the cognitive dissonance displayed by many of the postings.

Volpius Leonius said...

"I suggest you try taking a broader view of the moral landscape."

So speaks the devil. The true path is narrow not broad. Keep your wicked advice to yourself, your view is so broad you cant see the evil right in front of your nose.

old believer said...

volpius,

You can keep spilling your offensive vitriol as much as you like but it doesn't change facts.

This whole post is about the new President-Elect and concern for what effect his policies will have. Like it or not there are other evils in the world besides abortion and having seen the USA reach its low point in terms of international esteem the hope must surely be that things improve.

With growing tension in the Middle-East, the renewal of serious tension with the Russian Federation, the global economic depression etc the world is poised for some potentially catastrophic events which could kill millions.

I hope Obama will be a force for good in those spheres (I am not convinced but I can hope). There are more issues at stake than just one.

Marc Datz(Ukrainian Greek Catholic)(US) said...

I guess we are still the 'church militant' and will be the 'church triumphant' at the Second Coming. We have to take a strong, even angry stance in defense of Catholic dogmas, issues, rules and the like. That is what is meant by 'church militant'. Our language should be selective enough, as not to break down the dialogue between the different parties. If we are too militant, everybody will just close up and we will not get the other side to listen. I believe that most of you agree with this approach.

Gem, you have to tone down a little bit, so people will listen and not shut you out! You made your anger clear to everyone, now let us start talking and building up a Catholic and moral world. You have established a strong posture for discussing abortion and other moral issues, as being a part of the 'church militant', now you have to develop an approach to make the issues stick with those that disagree with you and other Catholics. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit guides your anger? Or the anger is all you and the Spirit guides the issues within you? Take that on for thought!! Peace!!!

gemoftheocean said...

Marc, I've every right to be angry at those who've betrayed not only their own faith, but are poisoning the minds of their own children.

All I'm saying is I am not going to turn a blind eye to it. Why bother with expensive Catholic schools for ones own children if you're going to undermine what they teach in your own home?

Clare said...

is there a prize for the 60th comment?

Pauline Gately said...

I think there should be a prize for anyone who has read all 60 :)

Michael Clifton said...

61 comments. Is this a record for Catholic blogs excluding Holy Smoke who is backed by a newspaper ? Ray, you are now crowned (by me Mildew) as the new King of Catholic Bloggers replacing the Hermeneutic !

pelerin said...

Is 61 a record for this blog? :)

Fr Ray Blake said...

Fr Michael,
No-one can compare to our friend Fr Tim.

Paul Knight said...

marc datz,

'Paul, I agree with you that abortion is the number one evil, but how about the other social injustices! Do we give them up to concentrate on abortion? Is that fair? WE HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THEM ALL!!!'

I wouldn't suggest that the others should be totally ignored. However, if the rights of the weakest in society cannot be protected how can we guarantee the rights of anyone else? All the other rights depends upon this.


'Pray for the fallen away Democrats.'

I most certainly will, friend.

Fr Tim Finigan said...

No really, Ray, 65 comments. Kudos!

And I thought that ecclesiastical heraldry was the "hot button" topic for bloated comment boxes :-)

Henry said...

Yes we have just seen the biggest robbery of all time by the crooks who have taken over the worlds finances, and as a result people are going to be out of work for years, thrown out of their homes, and now the politicians are planning steal peoples savings through inflation so that those who have been thrifty and provident will be made to pay.

It seems to me that there has been just a teeny-weeny bit of sin which is worthy of comment. Not that Obama seems as if he will do anything useful in that direction any more than the clowns who are in charge here, or the so-called opposition.