tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post117841588737232407..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Disconcerted by Francis #2Fr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-64167982852233811882013-09-26T01:41:17.516+01:002013-09-26T01:41:17.516+01:00A friend of mine, a man I trust, told me that his ...A friend of mine, a man I trust, told me that his spiritual director was exhausted when he went to their prearranged meeting a few days ago. He was exhausted as he had been working for several hours helping a close friend. His friend, a theologian called W******h, was desperately cleaning up a mess, made by his boss. His boss 'circumvented the "protocol", again!’ He's not to keen on protocol, especially if it involves others, peers, proof reading what he intends to make public - so simply ignores it. He’s the boss, he can do that.<br /><br />Is this an indication of his confidence in his 'personal' ability to understand the will of the Holy Spirit, or it is it the first sign of a budding dictator?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14133427380374795013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-66037101344746960452013-09-24T22:32:30.424+01:002013-09-24T22:32:30.424+01:00Jacaobi, I am very interested in you comment on ho...Jacaobi, I am very interested in you comment on how Francis' being Argentinian impacts on his vision. Can you expand?Fr Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17100835367411155678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-38460463283988076382013-09-24T20:17:24.495+01:002013-09-24T20:17:24.495+01:00NL
"A la carte" is exactly how the media...NL<br />"A la carte" is exactly how the media and Liberal Catholics is presenting Pope Francis' pontificate, that, and asking if that has any foundation is precisely what is being discussed here.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-4926817081417589102013-09-24T19:56:44.166+01:002013-09-24T19:56:44.166+01:00Unfortunately Catholicism is not or should not be ...Unfortunately Catholicism is not or should not be a la carte if you don't like it, jump over to the liberal anything goes C of E. DO NOT SIT BACK SNIPING FROM THE SIDELINES!!!!Newry Liamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462836860182375212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-32197372824825855262013-09-24T17:21:21.486+01:002013-09-24T17:21:21.486+01:00@ Archimandrite Gregory
No accusation. Simply co...@ Archimandrite Gregory<br /><br />No accusation. Simply commentary. Anectodal evidence is important. Faith stories. <br /><br />My experience of Mass might be very different, but it is that difference which makes the difference.Roses and Jessaminehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17382837693414491679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-73694128910430404802013-09-24T16:30:32.549+01:002013-09-24T16:30:32.549+01:00Roses and jassamine,
Funny that you would say wha...Roses and jassamine,<br /><br />Funny that you would say what you did. I observed the same behvior on the part of people in Sardinia last Sunday during the Pope's Mass. Even during communion. They never shut up! Also a woman was given communion in the hand while she was holding her prayer book, hereby putting the Host in peril of being dropped. We could accuse one another with such anecdotes, but to what avail?Archimandrite Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894842027467584759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-36022509393688385082013-09-24T16:10:27.081+01:002013-09-24T16:10:27.081+01:00If you think about it, what are we doing in the Ch...If you think about it, what are we doing in the Church today? At Mass the homilies address the people who are there – the practicing Catholics. On Catholic blogs most of the people who bother to read them are also practicing Catholics – though blogs do reach a wider audience than churchgoers and have the potential to reach more.<br /><br />I think this where Pope Francis is coming from when he talks about “the peripheries”. Given recent statistics, in most countries a majority of baptized Catholics are rarely in church – only for Baptisms, weddings and funerals, if even then. With many Catholics foregoing even these Sacraments the number of people the Church is reaching from within is progressively diminishing – not to mention people of other, or no faith.<br /><br />Accordingly, what most people hear about the Catholic Church is filtered through the prism of the secular media which are no friends of the Church, are ill-informed or prejudiced about Catholicism. The dissenting voices within the Church play into the media prejudices and are a scandal in themselves.<br /><br />But has anything changed, really? Beginning with the false accusations against Our Lord, the malicious gossip of the pagan Greeks and Romans and on down through the centuries, the Church has often been misrepresented, misunderstood and persecuted – both from within and from without.<br /><br />Yet She survives - as Our Lord promised She would. But we still have a long way to go for the Gospel to reach ‘all nations’ as He commanded – a commandment directed at all of us, not just the Pope or the clergy. As my old CEO used to say after complimenting us on another successful business year: “Now, what have you done for me lately?”GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-35910276405300654792013-09-24T16:01:53.274+01:002013-09-24T16:01:53.274+01:00Sorry - I mean to add this to my comment:
How lon...Sorry - I mean to add this to my comment:<br /><br />How long is long enough to wait before we can 'judge'? Have we not seen enough? Can you honestly say that Pope Francis has not already - in a mere six months - surpassed even Paul VI in his disgraceful antics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-59032198269217641112013-09-24T15:59:17.252+01:002013-09-24T15:59:17.252+01:00Father,
What was unCatholic about it? Do you not ...Father,<br /><br />What was unCatholic about it? Do you not believe that there can ever be an evil Pope? What about the Borgias? What about pope Honorius? Weren't they evil?<br /><br />What about St Francis of Assisi's death-bed prophecy, that in the last days the Lord would send us, "not a true pastor, but a destroyer"?<br /><br />I don't trust the media at all. That's why I am so profoundly disturbed that they like Pope Francis so much - I think not without reason or scriptural mandate, "Woe to you when men shall bless you: for according to these things did their fathers to the false prophets." (Luke 6:26)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-87635519506608448252013-09-24T14:18:14.800+01:002013-09-24T14:18:14.800+01:00I don't have any problems with our Holy Father...I don't have any problems with our Holy Father, but I do have problems with Eastern Orthodoxy. <br /><br />My general problem with it, as Fr. Ray says, is that over the centuries Eastern Orthodoxy has become a nationally and racially exclusive creed, which is not in line with the central Christian concept of 'καθολικός' (all ways). Who can follow a Mass in Ancient Greek or Russian? <br /><br />Liturgically, the Eastern Orthodox laity are visibly, tangibly and audibly removed from the Eucharist. I have been to many Orthodox weddings, baptisms and funerals. During these, most of the laity are chatting away amongst themselves, ignoring what is happening in front of the iconostasis, talking about their everyday lives, coming and going out during the service any time they please, while the priests and cantors do their own thing and ignore the laity. I doubt the priests know the names of their parishioners, or commune with them. How many Orthodox priests blog? <br /><br />Where I live, the Orthodox church has private business interests, including owning 5* star hotels and holiday flats, beer and wine companies. They make substantial profits from these businesses and hold enormous savings in one particular bank, which could probably save one euronation's economy. This is widely reported and known in the local press. <br /><br />A while ago, I was buying some incense from an Orthodox church shop as a gift (I must say, they make lovely rose incense), the shop manager was an Orthodox priest. He spotted the Cross of Jerusalem around my neck and said: "My daughter, are you a Frank?" I laughed and said, "That is what you used to call us. There is only one Church founded by St. Peter." He sighed and said: "We are closer to each other than the Protestants, but you still don't accept the Julian calendar." (!) <br /><br />Actually not true, because the Catholic Church in this part of the world does go along with the Julian calendar, so that everyone can celebrate Easter at the same time. <br /> Roses and Jessaminehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17382837693414491679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-19053128825684580712013-09-24T13:45:46.630+01:002013-09-24T13:45:46.630+01:00Anil,
Too bad you are not more informed on what i...Anil,<br /><br />Too bad you are not more informed on what is going on in world wide Orthodoxy and the greater solidarity that has been emerging for some time now. Please avoid old worn out platitudes that are not eflective of the contemporary world. Also a good course in Eastern Orthodox Church history might illumine your understanding a bit more.Archimandrite Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894842027467584759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-881212564783116812013-09-24T12:56:24.374+01:002013-09-24T12:56:24.374+01:00Quia Vid.
That is outrageous and un-Catholic.
Le...Quia Vid.<br />That is outrageous and un-Catholic. <br /><br />Let us have the grace to admit, we don't understand this Papacy so far, that many have difficulties but let's be slow to judge, 'lest we are judged ourselves'.<br />Have the humility to trust God's promise to his Church. Wait and see. <br /><br />Don't trust the media!!!Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-89269833488646827682013-09-24T12:16:50.783+01:002013-09-24T12:16:50.783+01:00The saddest thing about Vatican 2 is that the Bish...The saddest thing about Vatican 2 is that the Bishops surrendered their teaching authority to the tyranny of "experts".vetusta ecclesiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454059029260192711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-51253546155192256022013-09-24T11:51:07.587+01:002013-09-24T11:51:07.587+01:00Thank you, Father, for not trying to shove the pro...Thank you, Father, for not trying to shove the problems with this pontificate under the carpet.<br /><br />The sooner we realise that God has sent us an evil pope [by this I mean; a pope who - wittingly or unwittingly - is afflicting the Church], and that the reason for this is sin and our lack of repentance and mortification for the same, the better. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-36258419595572264512013-09-24T11:05:38.367+01:002013-09-24T11:05:38.367+01:00I feel utterly abandoned by Pope Francis. I feel utterly abandoned by Pope Francis. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16664129156841386638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-54148238430513752672013-09-24T09:49:55.566+01:002013-09-24T09:49:55.566+01:00Personally, I blame Bismarck. If it hadn't bee...Personally, I blame Bismarck. If it hadn't been for the Franco-Prussian war, Vatican I could have finished the job, which might have tempered the more extreme tendencies. But then I guess there wouldn't have been a Vatican II.Deliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383433319373651830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-72359596590088071522013-09-24T05:11:34.301+01:002013-09-24T05:11:34.301+01:00Honestly, the thought of another council is horrif...Honestly, the thought of another council is horrifying to me.<br />But maybe we could get Joseph Ratzinger to be a peritus?EKAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17355265780322620901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-80011021625624066212013-09-24T00:24:07.350+01:002013-09-24T00:24:07.350+01:00Jorge,
An interesting comment, I am not sure quite...Jorge,<br />An interesting comment, I am not sure quite what you are saying, nor that you quite understand what I am saying, nor that you quite understand what the Church is saying.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-4545819667157771782013-09-23T23:52:07.229+01:002013-09-23T23:52:07.229+01:00Bones,
Correct. The 60s was the worst possible t...Bones,<br /><br />Correct. The 60s was the worst possible time to hold a Council. Hence the disaster.<br /><br />I’m not sure about the 2010s. The question is, has the full impact of the disaster sunk in yet? Probably not!<br /><br />Also, a new Council must be under the right sort of Pope and I do not think the present Holy Father fits the bill. But the Mystical Body of Christ on Earth desperately needs one.Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-27444923503259254452013-09-23T23:45:48.126+01:002013-09-23T23:45:48.126+01:00If you are going to leave, leave now, don't tr...If you are going to leave, leave now, don't try to justify your departure, you feel unconfortable with the Catholic Chruch and you are spreading your wishy washy stand for the catholic church in the "sake" of rites. You seem not to care about the fact that We catholics are obedient. If God sees his church in trouble he is who has to take it out of it, but not us. <br /><br />Your duobitative posts make you to look like little child who is not confident in the strenght of the church which is not dependent on the humans but in God. The changes of Vatican II had helped the gospel to be spread among asians and africans who don't have the same vocabulary, roots, and grammar that Wetern, As an Hispanic Latin mass and Spanish mass is quite similar because Spanish is one of the closest laguages to latin. I Love latin Mass but I rather to people in the mission churches to understand the gospel they hear than to respect a traditional language which they don't understand. <br /><br /><br />The TRAITION is SACRAMENTS, Communion with the Bishop of Rome as SUCCESSOR of PETER, The understanding of FAITH. The Understanding of Works of CHARITY. the fidelity to the Law of the Church. <br /><br />Languaga is tradition with little "t", we honor our heritage and our traditions. All Those who defend "tradition" over "TRADITION", end in schism and heresy.<br /><br />If you are going to leave leave now and stop to cause shame.<br /><br />Regards from a mexican Catholic who wanted to follow the blog of a catholic priest. But who has testified that you are moving away from us and I will no longer follow your blog. Jorge Carrillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04491281921537543218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-77492053841313182692013-09-23T23:06:39.035+01:002013-09-23T23:06:39.035+01:00“ I do have problems with how these doctrines beca...“ I do have problems with how these doctrines became so quickly corrupted by the middle of the 20th century.”<br /><br />I don't pin these problems on Vatican I. I don't currently have a reference, but I do remember seeing liturgical books on "Green Liturgies" in the 1950s, and Mike Voris has documents abuses have started creeping in locally for decades before the council. And before the new liturgy, it was already clear that "modernizing the liturgy" was in the works. For instance, Change of Habit which was released before 1969 and created a few years earlier contained various abuses that flowed after the council (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-S3K6wXYpg ).<br /><br />Even if Vatican I never happened, Vatican II was an Ecumenical Council and could do all that Vatican II did without the Pope's final say in Eastern Orthodoxy. It hasn't happened, mostly because Orthodoxy is so divided that they cannot hold an Ecumenical Council even though all know it is necessary (e.g. the scandal of the lack of an American Orthodox Church). It's not likely to happen now, due to the fall-out of Vatican II. But if it did happen in the 1960s, and hippie culture was popular in the East, and Vatican II didn't happen (thus the Spirit of Vatican II never happened, and modernist corruption had to be slower), the situation might have be reversed. We already see signs of this slow worldliness happening in Orthodoxy as the Orthodox Church is less under seige by the state. Take Contraception as an example. While a few small jurisdictions still hold to Catholic traditions, the majority have caved into the Lambeth model of "allowing it pastorally as long as you don't use abortifacients".<br /><br />I pray that Pope Francis finally realizes the damages he has caused and learns from it. He has brought a welcome return to some aspects of the faith (e.g. talk about the Devil, taking up your cross in daily life, etc) that have been sorely lacking in even Pope Benedict XVI's papacy. But all that can be undone if the Church becomes fragmented and loses its center more than it has.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anil Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06223235205492924930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-91208143791089410552013-09-23T22:45:48.589+01:002013-09-23T22:45:48.589+01:00In a piece on Catholic Culture, Phil Lawler had an...In a piece on Catholic Culture, Phil Lawler had an interesting take on Pope Francis. Referring to a talk the Pope gave in Rome back in June he noted that Pope Francis spoke about the Good Shepherd leaving the 99 and going after the one. Francis said “we have the one. We need to go after the 99 that are lost…” Or, words to that effect.<br /><br />From which I conclude that the Pope is saying we should stop “preaching to the converted”, but look to those who are not yet converted – the non-Catholics, lapsed Catholics and those without religion or in a false religion.<br /><br />Again, I see this as Christ-like, echoing the words of Our Lord: “I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel…”<br /><br />And the task of finding and returning the lost sheep is one for all of us - not just the Pope, bishops or priests. And that takes us out of our comfort zone. Evangelization is the work of all who have the true Faith.<br /><br />Forget the internecine bickering – what have I done to bring others to Christ and the fullness of the Faith?GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-49458904308892845892013-09-23T22:43:07.362+01:002013-09-23T22:43:07.362+01:00Father Ray,
Thank you for a thought-prov...Father Ray,<br /> Thank you for a thought-provoking post. <br /> I am mildly surprised that no one seems to have pointed out the centralising of Authority which is included in the opening chapter of the Decree on Ecumenism. That chapter as well as the Decree, imho,<br /> seems to have undermined local initiatives as well almost calling a halt to Evangelisation and the Missionary activity of the Church.<br /> I know some will argue that Ecumenism is merely another form of Evangelisation. I think that view should be questionedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-22617392918412505742013-09-23T22:35:14.746+01:002013-09-23T22:35:14.746+01:00A review of Dr Hull's "Banished Heart&quo...A review of Dr Hull's "Banished Heart": http://theradtrad.blogspot.com/2013/08/book-review-banished-heart-origins-of.htmlThe Rad Tradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899289024837953345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-69585962701021149012013-09-23T22:31:09.850+01:002013-09-23T22:31:09.850+01:00Jonathon,
It is worth reading up on, it is a littl...Jonathon,<br />It is worth reading up on, it is a little more complex than most Westerners want to understandFr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.com