tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post1968942749008582496..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: The Pope changes the Church's teaching on ...Fr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-79320969499989475592017-10-23T16:36:44.256+01:002017-10-23T16:36:44.256+01:00We have a duty to defend and preserve innocent lif...We have a duty to defend and preserve innocent life; that may include going to war, defending others who are attacked and where law enforcement is ineffective, to execute. Indeed not to execute when we know that a murderer will kill again would be to permit the killing of the innocent. We have a duty to act in certain circumstances which may appear paradoxical.Domhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01378792625661757208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-44159031149089499562017-10-16T17:41:25.531+01:002017-10-16T17:41:25.531+01:00Just because he can't logically change it, it ...Just because he can't logically change it, it doesn't mean he can't give the impression it has changed especially to the majority of Catholics who are poorly formed in the faith. I have already had Catholics criticise me for standing up for Christ's teaching on the death penalty and thus say I am over critical of Pope Francis. All is left for us faithful is to standby good clerics like you Fr Ray Blake and pray that you continue to proclaim the gospel without fear especially at Mass. In meantime we will also do our bit by evangelising the people around us and praying for the salvation of souls.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458569366893735721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-56581228365236560532017-10-15T19:39:31.201+01:002017-10-15T19:39:31.201+01:00Cosmos said: The interesting thing is that the bis...Cosmos said: <i>The interesting thing is that the bishops are willing to speak quite forcefully on some issues: environment, death penalty, immigration, civil rights, greedy bankers, etc.</i><br /><br />The bishops want to impose absolutes on matters of prudential judgment, like the items listed above, but squish around on real absolutes.Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-40781485078846893882017-10-14T16:55:30.803+01:002017-10-14T16:55:30.803+01:00Father, I agree. The Pope certainly has the abili...Father, I agree. The Pope certainly has the ability to cast some serious doubt over the Church's claim to universal jurisdiction. He can make it look like a hollow proposition with no practical benefit.<br /><br />John Vasc. The interesting thing is that the bishops are willing to speak quite forcefully on some issues: environment, death penalty, immigration, civil rights, greedy bankers, etc. Then the same bishops tell us that we need not force our opinions on other, or be judgmental, on issues like homosexuality, abortion, centralized socialism, etc. Seems more like, "if you can't say anything progressive, better not to say anything at all." <br /><br />That's not to say that parts of the Church's social teaching aren't more progressive than conservative, but it's clear that the communication strategy is much more worried about offending one particular sensibility than to remain intellectually consistent. Cosmoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14199946824127025416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-11167519422888958302017-10-14T15:41:47.211+01:002017-10-14T15:41:47.211+01:00Also, to echo Anita Moore's comment above:
&q...Also, to echo Anita Moore's comment above: <br />"Fear not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt 10:28)<br /><br />"And I say to you, my friends: Be not afraid of them who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will shew you whom you shall fear: Fear ye him who, after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you: Fear him." (Luke 10: 4-5)<br /><br />Indeed, that 'him',is really'Him'. But Hell is not frequently mentioned in this papacy, is it...John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52619749675197561082017-10-14T13:46:14.444+01:002017-10-14T13:46:14.444+01:00Even if PF inists that the teaching of the Church ...Even if PF inists that the teaching of the Church on capital punishment has changed, it will have not the slightest effect in practice, as the Church no longer has any influence over secular politics - not even in matters directly affecting the Faith such as education, worship and social evils. This is the result of devolving such influence to national conferences of modernist bishops who prefer to keep 'in' with the politicians, not to rock any boats, and to let Catholicism retreat entirely to the private sphere, except for empty words about 'JustisandPeas'. <br />For many bishops, the message of the New Testament has been replaced by the message of Bambi's mother: 'If you can't say anything nice, better not say anything at all!'John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-9916451117697377302017-10-13T13:12:10.820+01:002017-10-13T13:12:10.820+01:00Cosmos. Of course you are right, another factor is...Cosmos. Of course you are right, another factor is that the Church will become ungovernable and divide into factions, manyy will apostacise because nothing will hold us in union with ChristFr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-46537449345378321092017-10-13T12:18:10.633+01:002017-10-13T12:18:10.633+01:00On the Pope's fallibility when not speaking in...On the Pope's fallibility when not speaking infallibly:<br /><br />Some people seem to think that a Pope would be struck by lightning or rendered dumb before he could contradict a doctrine of the Church. But I think it's more simple than that. If the Pope were to, say, try to incorporate Mary into the Trinity, adding a fourth person, he would be rebuked by the law of non-contradiction. There would be no need for anything supernatural. If one is true, the other can't be. Catholics need not entertain the new teaching.<br /><br />Here, it's the same. If the Church is infallible in matters of faith and morals. And it has clearly taught that the death penalty is allowable in some situations... then the Pope simply has no room to teach that it's wrong in ALL situations. He can be ignored on this matter. Either he's wrong or the claims of the Church are wrong.<br /><br />Otherwise the Church would no longer be handing on what has been revealed. Instead, the Pope would be a prophet-King with special access to the Holy Spirit, charged with revealing NEW truths as history unfolds. There would be no need for "faith and reason," because reason would give us no access to anything. In fact, they could even offer new truths that contradict Jesus himself who (they would say) was fallible and culturally-limited by his decision to become a first century Palestinian. The teaching evolves... I mean develops and the Spirit leads us into the future. <br /><br />This may be a nice religion, but is not Catholicism. Paul himself was well aware, as we are, of the danger of conflating conditioned cultural norms with the Truth. That is the exact issue he confronts Peter on!!! He's the one who says there is no longer need for circumcision because the old divisions were cast aside. Yet he clearly also says that governments have the power of the sword from God, not the keys to the prison.<br /><br />To accuse early Christians of not understanding the ramifications of the Gospel--the men who declared there is no longer man or woman, Greek or Jew--is arrogance or ignorance.<br /><br />Cosmoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14199946824127025416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-55881852857937906402017-10-13T11:36:38.501+01:002017-10-13T11:36:38.501+01:00The jovial one is squabbling over Fulton Sheens bo...The jovial one is squabbling over Fulton Sheens bones for the $ from pilgrimages. Sham on him. Stephen Lowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09665722831953785556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-2064656473663094062017-10-13T11:33:54.396+01:002017-10-13T11:33:54.396+01:00But euthanasia is okay. There is nothing but darkn...But euthanasia is okay. There is nothing but darkness spewing forth from this man. Stephen Lowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09665722831953785556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52003545618411814872017-10-13T09:04:06.999+01:002017-10-13T09:04:06.999+01:00There is a tail to this topic. The OT prescribes t...There is a tail to this topic. The OT prescribes the death sentence but tradition was against it. A Sanhedrin that permitted even one execution in 70 years was regarded as "murderous". Limitation on capital punishment was accomplished by stringent application of the rules of evidence. <br /><br />Revulsion against the death penalty in Britain was focussed by the Evans/Christie and Bentley/Craig cases in the 1950s.Physiocrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13682019625346594568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-72186115714190432492017-10-13T03:36:04.332+01:002017-10-13T03:36:04.332+01:00Did Pope Francis, in saying this, speak as the Hea...Did Pope Francis, in saying this, speak as the Head of the Church, on a matter of faith and morals, to be held universally by all the faithful? I am seriously asking, as I don't know the details of how this was done. If he did attempt to do that - then what? He'd be contradicting continuous Church teaching, whichever limit one wants to place on the details, has always allowed it within certain parameters. It will be interesting to see what the USCCB comes up with as well. Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903353989469475450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-84885251122368884692017-10-13T00:17:15.047+01:002017-10-13T00:17:15.047+01:00So, is this grounds for an execution? If so, may I...So, is this grounds for an execution? If so, may I volunteer my services as High Executioner?Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16864933595380979520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-30419538573427565922017-10-12T21:51:01.843+01:002017-10-12T21:51:01.843+01:00Isn't about time for a fraternal Correction? D...Isn't about time for a fraternal Correction? Dear Cardinals of the Church...where have you disappeared to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-74353250615872103242017-10-12T21:40:32.332+01:002017-10-12T21:40:32.332+01:00Thank you for clarifying that a pope can only clar...Thank you for clarifying that a pope can only clarify true teachings. Tell that to the present pontiff. Or perhaps that is why he is silent when asked to clarify. Does he even believe? One can think not.M. Prodigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05598092468839468735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-18080314241105725562017-10-12T17:32:50.141+01:002017-10-12T17:32:50.141+01:00It seems to me that if he teaches that definitivel...It seems to me that if he teaches that definitively, then he is contradicting the ordinary universal magisterium of the Church which has held that the State has the right to impose the death penalty. He would be saying that what has been held to be moral is immoral. What then? Is he no longer the Pope?thomas tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241537308195762967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-6982199713427212522017-10-12T16:23:56.337+01:002017-10-12T16:23:56.337+01:00The death penalty is not only consistent with the ...The death penalty is not only consistent with the sacredness of life, it actually affirms it. The principle is that life is so sacred that the fitting punishment for depriving another of his life unjustly is for the murderer to be deprived of his own.<br /><br />I suspect, as the late Justice Antonin Scalia argued, that modern-day opposition to capital punishment is based in large part on the rejection of a belief in life after death. After all, if there is no life after death, then when you execute a criminal, what you are really doing is annihilating him, and there could be no worse fate than to be annihilated (although this is apparently fine in the case of unborn babies). I wonder if this thinking has not crept into the Church, so at least some opposition to capital punishment within the Church is rooted in a mentality which has lost sight of the fact that there are worse things that can befall a criminal than death.Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-87583660825494150982017-10-12T13:58:31.270+01:002017-10-12T13:58:31.270+01:00And by implication, the "just war" doctr...And by implication, the "just war" doctrine goes down the gurgler too, right?<br /><br />The Church's faithlessness and rebelliousness must have truly angered God for him to inflict this horrible chastisement on us. I've come to utterly loathe this man. kiwiinamericahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03584836925358624544noreply@blogger.com