tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post3590552099491278472..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Bishops: Warriors or DiplomatsFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70004003164112391722012-09-21T22:48:19.804+01:002012-09-21T22:48:19.804+01:00If the "ghetto" Church had continued, Ca...If the "ghetto" Church had continued, Catholics would today constitute a voting block equal if not superior to that of the nation of Scotland. Nobody could win an election without us.Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-83902353637819585782012-09-21T19:28:38.289+01:002012-09-21T19:28:38.289+01:00CE User,
Thanks for the quotes. My beef is that t...CE User,<br /><br />Thanks for the quotes. My beef is that the "smaller-but-purer-church" is used by certain quarters to say that B16 is a big meanie that wants to start a massive and unjust witch-hunt for dissidents and expunge them. I don't think any of his quotes support that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-85321531275876913752012-09-21T14:21:48.273+01:002012-09-21T14:21:48.273+01:00RomishGraffiti:
It is a paraphrase, certainly, bu...RomishGraffiti:<br /><br />It is a paraphrase, certainly, but there is a much closer quote than the one you cite. From 1969, published in 2009 by Ignatius Press, including these snippets:<br /><br /><br />"The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning."<br /><br />Toward the end:<br />"She may well no longer be the dominant social power to the extent that she was until recently; but she will enjoy a fresh blossoming and be seen as man’s home, where he will find life and hope beyond death."<br /><br />Sounds to me like the paraphrase does have a grain of salt behind it...<br /><br /><br />CE Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10889864905674203341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10031197653869085772012-09-21T07:37:39.071+01:002012-09-21T07:37:39.071+01:00Father
When did we last have an Archbishop of Wes...Father<br /><br />When did we last have an Archbishop of Westminster who was a warrior rather than a diplomat?<br /><br />I suggested Cardinal Heenan to my wife, but she pointed out that it was on his watch that the Abortion bill went through. He had been advised not to make it a Catholic issue, and later regretted his inaction.<br /><br />Still, I have always had a soft spot for him, particularly with his defence of what we now must call the EF Massjohnfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16233791349837340770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-55424391888434484052012-09-21T04:42:33.938+01:002012-09-21T04:42:33.938+01:00I thought his "This isn't about contracep...I thought his "This isn't about contraception" approach to the HHS mandate was a silly gesture. It came off more like:<br /><br />"We Catholics have this weird idea that contraception is bad. We have no reason for this belief. Don’t look at us, man; it’s the old man in Rome. He made up this rule and the rest of us are stuck with it. It’s like the Jews and pork–-a ‘religion’ thing. However, even though poor, poor women (Who cares about men, after all?) are going to, like die, or whatever it is that happens to chicks who don’t get their contraceptive pills, we are selfishly sticking with our arbitrary dislike, and we think we’ve found something in the constitution that forces you to let us."<br /><br />Rather, he should have said, "Contraception is evil. It desecrates the marital bond, offends against chastity, and is a menace to public morals. It is reprehensible to engage in contraceptive acts or to cooperate in them in any way. The State has no common good interest in facilitating it to say nothing of forcing others to pay for it."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-40194085372131071752012-09-21T03:00:25.236+01:002012-09-21T03:00:25.236+01:00To give in is to sell out. To sell out is to comp...To give in is to sell out. To sell out is to compromise the faith. If you compromise the faith, you lose the faith. If you lose the faith, you lose everything.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-35012438195309369122012-09-21T02:02:51.365+01:002012-09-21T02:02:51.365+01:00Anita Moore said:
"And now we have the spect...Anita Moore said:<br /><br />"And now we have the spectacle of Cardinal Dolan chumming it up with perhaps the most anti-life, anti-Catholic president in the history of the United States at a major Catholic charity event, just before the election."<br /><br />THE LILY<br /><br />"The martyrs were bound, imprisoned, scourged, racked, burnt, rent, butchered —and they multiplied." St. Augustine<br /><br />NO BURNING, TEARING,<br /><br />SCOURGING SKIN.<br /><br />IT'S PSYCHOLOGICAL,<br /><br />ALL WITHIN.<br /><br /><br />NO ROTTING FLESH<br /><br />OR PUTRID BLOOD<br /><br />IT'S STERILE, CLEAN<br /><br />NO RANCID CRUD<br /><br /><br />FOR BUTCHERED, <br /><br />TORTURED,BOUND UP SKINS,<br /><br />REVEALS THE TRUTHS<br /><br />OF BISHOPS SINS.<br /><br /><br />THEY WANT IT NICE,<br /><br />THEY WANT IT HUSHED,<br /><br />WITH VEINS OF ICE<br /><br />GOOD SOULS ARE CRUSHED.<br /><br /><br />THE SILENT COLD,<br /><br />IS BETTER YET,<br /><br />FROZEN, SOLID,<br /><br />CAN'T BEGET.<br /><br /><br />FOR MARTYRED BLOOD<br /><br />REVEALS THE CHURCH,<br /><br />BLIND SOULS SEE TRUTH<br /><br />AND END THEIR SEARCH.<br /><br /><br />"WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!"<br /><br />THE BISHOPS' SAY."<br /><br />SO LET'S IGNORE...<br /><br />THEY'LL GO AWAY." <br /><br /><br />"ENLIGHTENED MEN,<br /><br />DON'T SCOURGE THE SKIN.<br /><br />ENLIGHTENED MEN,<br /><br />KEEP BLOOD, WITHIN."<br /><br /><br />BUT THEY FORGOT...<br /><br />THE WOMAN BLEEDS,<br /><br />AND MONTHLY, MAKES<br /><br />A BED FOR SEEDS.<br /><br /><br /><br />WHERE "NICE" AND "HUSHED"<br /><br />THEY'LL GROW TO MEN<br /><br />AND SEIZE THE OARS<br /><br />FROM WRISTS THAT BEND...<br /><br /><br />ON PETER'S BARK<br /><br />WHERE BLOOD STILL FLOWS,<br /><br />FROM WOMAN'S WOMB...<br /><br />THE LILY GROWS!<br /><br />Long-Skirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791967605782446951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-91079218618430015962012-09-21T00:32:40.180+01:002012-09-21T00:32:40.180+01:00Amfortas said...Breaking off contact is just gestu...Amfortas said...<i>Breaking off contact is just gesture politics. Cardinal Dolan in the US is a formidable defender of the faith who cheerfully speaks truth to power without silly gestures.</i><br /><br />The avoidance of scandal is not a silly gesture. But in any case, breaking off contact and declining to extend an undeserved honor to an enemy of the Church are two different things. Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-6500699521925460652012-09-20T22:05:44.679+01:002012-09-20T22:05:44.679+01:00"Fr Ray Blake said...
Dear old Bishop Jukes u... "Fr Ray Blake said...<br />Dear old Bishop Jukes used to say that to me when he came to address the TUC, I can't remember how they did it."<br /><br />They didn't. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-82771029512302879132012-09-20T20:12:40.207+01:002012-09-20T20:12:40.207+01:00"Smaller but purer Church" is a bit like..."Smaller but purer Church" is a bit like Martin Luther's comment that we are as "dunghills covered with snow" in that neither actually said it.<br /><br />The closest thing to that from the Holy Father was when he was talking about Nazi Germany and that if the Church had foregone privileging brick and mortar institutions, the Christian witness might have been better than it was (which was still pretty good if you read Robert Royal's Catholic Martyrs of the 20th Century).<br /><br />Rather, I take the smaller-but-purer meme to be more prediction than prescription. As society (including too many Catholics) makes it clear they have no god but Caesar, expect the Church to shed more institutions rather than throw the pinch of incense at this god. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-50357960947636972512012-09-20T19:27:34.954+01:002012-09-20T19:27:34.954+01:00Breaking off contact is just gesture politics. Car...Breaking off contact is just gesture politics. Cardinal Dolan in the US is a formidable defender of the faith who cheerfully speaks truth to power without silly gestures.Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07580253432208073322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52829980382411243052012-09-20T17:19:19.266+01:002012-09-20T17:19:19.266+01:00As they grow up people begin to realise that in th...As they grow up people begin to realise that in the world as it is they will not get everything their own way. Accepting that this is so, while retaining one's integrity, is what distinguishes the truly mature. In the world of today churches can no longer expect ready acceptance of their views. If they want to be heard they will need to show maturity and Christlike humble authority and seek allies wherever they can be found, knowing (humbly again) that so-called secular society shows many signs of Christian concern from which the churches can learn. <br />The "ghetto" Church of the 1950s was in many ways beginning to be outward looking and forward thinking. If the aim of Pope Benedict's "New" Evangelisation is to retreat into a smaller purer Church (something that no previous generation would have countenanced) maybe we need some of the old-style Evangelisation.Savonarolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12547523172291007631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-62111137032866550632012-09-20T16:46:34.302+01:002012-09-20T16:46:34.302+01:00Dear old Bishop Jukes used to say that to me when ...Dear old Bishop Jukes used to say that to me when he came to address the TUC, I can't remember how they did it.<br /><br />But today I think the Government have moved so far away from us we are whispering from different mountain tops, and hopelessly compromised too.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-30964433179080384152012-09-20T16:41:50.777+01:002012-09-20T16:41:50.777+01:00I hate to say it, but the hierarchy in England mus...I hate to say it, but the hierarchy in England must be in pretty sorry shape if the American bishops look like warriors by comparison. There are in fact very few warrior bishops on my side of the Pond. Many of them run their dioceses as though they were middle-management bureaucrats instead of shepherds of souls. And now we have the spectacle of Cardinal Dolan chumming it up with perhaps the most anti-life, anti-Catholic president in the history of the United States at a major Catholic charity event, just before the election. <br /><br />No, I fear the warrior bishops in the stamp of Bl.Clemens von Galen are very few and far between here.Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-32424116304671810822012-09-20T16:35:13.176+01:002012-09-20T16:35:13.176+01:00Theirs our warriors - ours are irrelevant*
*In t...Theirs our warriors - ours are irrelevant*<br /><br /><br />*In the sense of interaction in the public square.Pétrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17539025631125425710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-88175854141364422322012-09-20T15:39:50.423+01:002012-09-20T15:39:50.423+01:00Many years ago the Bishop John Jukes was interview...Many years ago the Bishop John Jukes was interviewed (I cannot remember if it was in The Catholic Herald or The Tablet).<br />He claimed that Catholic Bishops exercise great influence "behind the scenes". Of course he couldn't indicate any areas where anything was achieved by such diplomacy!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com