tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post4770032279094473108..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Man LoveFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-5226245638846822932011-01-02T23:59:03.535+00:002011-01-02T23:59:03.535+00:00johnf, post of 6:11:10
bryan, post of 5:11:10
JAr...johnf, post of 6:11:10<br />bryan, post of 5:11:10 <br />JAray, post of 5:11:10<br /><br />Thanks for your responses to my posting of 4:11:10.<br />By putting στοργε in the search engine and clicking up the first response in the list that came up, I found the following suggestion for the translation of the four terms under discussion:<br />Στοργε, storge - love of e.g., parents for their children.<br />ερος, eros - romantic love.<br />φιλια, philia -friendship. <br />αγαπε - unconditional love (e.g., the love of a martyr)mictel08@yahoo.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52670378030456062932011-01-02T23:45:09.978+00:002011-01-02T23:45:09.978+00:00shadowlands: In your posting of 8:11:10, you ask, ...shadowlands: In your posting of 8:11:10, you ask, nay demand, that people e-mail you with their promises of prayer in support of your lone campaign of prayer and fasting. I've looked, but can't find/see your e-address. Please provide. Thanks.<br />Can I say that being 'chippy' about the whole 'women-in-the-church' thing doesn't really do anything except distract us all from the one aim, which is to offer ourselves to almighty God by loving and honouring him in the Mass. Like many men I have a vocation, that of being a husband. I have no regrets whatever about choosing that vocation. Occasionally, however, I muse about being a priest, even though as a married man the priesthood is barred to me - a situation with which I whole heartedly concur. Which in a way means that men are in something like the same situation as the women who feel that they are excluded from something by a stern, unfeeling and unforgiving church. You may say is all this disputation and wrangling really worth the time it takes up? To which my response would be: quite! See what I mean about distraction?!mikesviewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-26918141228313856772010-11-10T22:22:25.571+00:002010-11-10T22:22:25.571+00:00A very perceptive post, Father. As "Fr D&quo...A very perceptive post, Father. As "Fr D" noted, the late Cardinal Heenan realised the effect that the new Mass would have on the number of men attending Mass - and how right he was!<br /><br />I attended an EF Mass a few days ago. It was at 1130 on a weekday morning and it was absolutely heaving down with rain, so the congregation was not large - but it was overwhelmingly male.<br /><br />QEDJonathan Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03955408376728340845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-8555500703907362562010-11-08T20:18:02.318+00:002010-11-08T20:18:02.318+00:00I really really really don't like the way the ...I really really really don't like the way the comments are going. In the sense, that sensitive females might shrink back into their holes and not realise their own vocation, in Our Lady's team. <br />The more the encouraging anti-female comments are coming in, the more frightened I am getting, for true Catholicism.<br />I am a female. I have no sisters, but two brothers. And five sons I have given birth to,(plus the sons Our Lady has given me, (her priests, five, on blogger, that I am to pray for daily and also encourages me to fast for, but I need persons to pray for me, to have the continuing power to fast for them (you wanna get real with the deal? Email me, and promise me you are praying for me! The other side is active and energentic (satan). She (Our Lady, will send me more priests then)). Pray also, if Our Lord, is asking you to pray for priests. Pyramid praying, is not the same, as pyramid selling. Come on girls, let's forget L'oreal, because you're worth it. Let's do fast, because, the priest is worth it!<br />Any women, feeling at a loss on this planet (it's a common phenomenum (never could spell that well)email me, Our Lady has a plan and an outcome, and she needs your involvement. She will win. The Trinity can never say 'no' to her. She only seeks the will of God. Her soul magnify's the Lord. She is where, we have got to be. Think about it. Representative's. Forget ego. Forget L'oreal. What Our Lady gives, is forever. She gave us Jesus. What more, do you want?mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-6695168020209149702010-11-08T13:58:55.131+00:002010-11-08T13:58:55.131+00:00Further to previous comment, I need to make a corr...Further to previous comment, I need to make a correction. There <i>was</i> congregational singing of the Ordinary of the Mass, but no hymns.Father John Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10581732723849634398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-86305583313289776422010-11-08T01:51:30.206+00:002010-11-08T01:51:30.206+00:00Dear Father
Naturally I fully agree with you.
On...Dear Father<br /><br />Naturally I fully agree with you.<br /><br />On the other hand, today I concelebrated at Assumption Grotto in Detroit where all Masses, EF and OF, are celebrated ad orientem. There was something about facing God, not the people, for the Liturgy of the Eucharist that produced the same effect you and I both perceive at EF Masses. There was a competent team of men and boy servers, all doing their jobs with precision, and the celebrant, deacon and concelebrant, simply doing and saying what they were instructed to do by the rubrics. Also: only chant (English antiphons, Latin ordinary - de Angelis), no congregational singing. Communion kneeling and on the tongue (by intinction) with communion plates.<br /><br />All very 'manly' and prayerful.<br /><br />Not that I do not fully agree that the EF Mass is the higher form of the Mass.Father John Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10581732723849634398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-67006458014475655012010-11-07T16:48:13.375+00:002010-11-07T16:48:13.375+00:00Father, I have just seen this posting and I think ...Father, I have just seen this posting and I think you are on to something here.<br /><br />I am a Military Chaplain and I definitely find that my soldiers prefer the EF. I started saying it in Afghanistan during my last tour there in 2007-8 and I have continued it almost daily back home, thanks to the Holy Father's Motu Proprio. <br /><br />Why do the soldiers like it? Silence, Order, Precision and not being persecuted by bossy women constantly telling them where to sit or thrusting bits of paper into their hands! <br /><br />Some people - men especially, I think - just want to come to Mass and worship God. <br /><br />In the EF, everyone knows where they are and there are fewer surprises or sacerdotal solipsisms. Also, the lads who serve on the altar like the "professionalism" required to get it right. I do think this is a particularly "masculine" trait.<br /><br />I think it was the late Cardinal Heenan who warned that the Mass of Paul VI potentially would have the unintended consequence of driving away ordinary working men due to its "feminised", middle-class presentation.<br /><br />How prophetic!frdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11257615365352846997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60455820358567917192010-11-07T12:59:50.316+00:002010-11-07T12:59:50.316+00:00Brilliant article Father Blake.Brilliant article Father Blake.Barbara MacKalskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-21944286316618929292010-11-07T11:06:35.412+00:002010-11-07T11:06:35.412+00:00Nazareth Priest
Thank you for that. Your summation...Nazareth Priest<br />Thank you for that. Your summation is exactly how I experience it.Ma Tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-54889366141303519662010-11-07T00:52:48.993+00:002010-11-07T00:52:48.993+00:00Thanks for those perceptive remarks Fr. The Church...Thanks for those perceptive remarks Fr. The Church in our isles largely lost mostly men and the working classes (as then were) post-'spirit of VII' reformism.JimGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-28824078680854617772010-11-06T19:50:41.923+00:002010-11-06T19:50:41.923+00:00I have just returned from TLM so this is hot off t...I have just returned from TLM so this is hot off the press:<br /><br />The beauty of the TLM lies in the fact that, unlike the Paul VI Mass, I am not incandescent with rage at the end of it. <br /><br />That's about as good as it is going to get for me.Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-33484958422454696932010-11-06T09:58:56.760+00:002010-11-06T09:58:56.760+00:00Good post Father
Some very good comments as well....Good post Father<br /><br />Some very good comments as well.<br />Like Bryan I was wondering about storge, a word which I had never met before.<br /><br />But I have found it under a <a href="http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon" rel="nofollow">Greek to English Lexicon</a>on the web<br /><br />στοργή = affection, attachmentjohnfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16233791349837340770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-74026376170838702822010-11-06T08:46:34.421+00:002010-11-06T08:46:34.421+00:00It's the silence of the EF which brings me clo...It's the silence of the EF which brings me closer to God. And it's silence which is so counter to the culture of noise which besets us. <br /><br />The injunction to be active from morning to night to validate our lives, to be more Martha than Mary, is just as relentless.<br /><br />How difficult, then, to be quiet and still enough to hear God speak. And what a pity that the Church goes along with the mores of the age instead of having the courage to be counter-cultural.<br /> <br />We saw the model in Hyde Park during the Pope's visit. Thousands upon thousands of people in total and concentrated silence with the roar of London all around them. I had hoped that the message would be picked up by the hierarchy.<br /><br />Sadly not. The wittering before, during and after (usually the OF) Mass continues unabated. Sometimes it seems that God doesn't actually get much of a look in and those who crave silence and contemplation in order to be nearer to Him are regarded as oddities.georgemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-25919394970567980572010-11-05T23:57:46.990+00:002010-11-05T23:57:46.990+00:00Narwen. I responded to it.Narwen. I responded to it.Zephyrinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01179350648709554049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-35732341940082309882010-11-05T22:35:23.912+00:002010-11-05T22:35:23.912+00:00Spot on, Father. I know the Church has to be inclu...Spot on, Father. I know the Church has to be inclusive, but I cannot help feeling that a sanctuary and sacristy that is run by women is not that inclusive either.<br /><br />It is hard to comment without putting one's foot in it and saying something non-PC. But blokes are different and there are things that women like and men don't - like shopping. Modern worship is a 'turn off' for too many people. <br /><br />The beauty of the EF is that we are all equal before God, male or female, saints or sinners. We can be devout or enjoy the music, kneel at the front or stand at the back, God is pleased to see us.MartinTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-53781408162255638342010-11-05T20:58:38.745+00:002010-11-05T20:58:38.745+00:00Dear Mikesview,
You write: "He quoted 'e...Dear Mikesview,<br /><br />You write: "He quoted 'eros', 'philia', 'storge' and 'agape'."<br /><br />Well the "storge" really puzzled me so I have just spent ten or so minutes looking for this "storge" as I have never seen this word. (Is that a manly thing to do I wonder).<br /><br />I have found an obscure word used rarely by Aeschylus - stergethron - which means a love charm and therefore for love.<br /><br />Woodhouse provide a better list here: <br /><br />http://artflx.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/efts/dicos/woodhouse_test.pl?keyword=^Love,%20v.%20trans.<br /><br />As to the main topic - as there are no lay readers or EMHC there are no women in the Sanctuary at Old Rite Masses. Also there are no female altar servers either. This must make a difference.Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15560006282627072784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-49420128355786720662010-11-05T20:35:35.016+00:002010-11-05T20:35:35.016+00:00>gemoftheocean said...
>H'mmmm..I expect...>gemoftheocean said...<br />>H'mmmm..I expect you've never >seen a girls' drill team....<br /><br />How come nobody responded to this ? <br />Also, what I read of that book by Podles (I couldn't force myself to finish it..) reminded me of the 'muscular Christianity' movement of the 19th century, whose chief exponent was Charles Kingsley, famous for his public insult to Catholicism in general and Blessed Newman in particular.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09015745990344837357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-71575247118556756652010-11-05T19:23:46.408+00:002010-11-05T19:23:46.408+00:00Spot on Father. I'm a young man and I find tha...Spot on Father. I'm a young man and I find that most of what passes for Catholic worship today is banalised and emasculated. Bring on the EF Mass or at least an OF offered as the Church desires, not according to the narcissism of the priest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-14814284115918996342010-11-05T18:15:25.997+00:002010-11-05T18:15:25.997+00:00As an Anglo-Irish descendant American, I can just ...As an Anglo-Irish descendant American, I can just say this:<br />the EF offers good manners, polite custom, and a way to love God in a very formal way; me Mum taught us manners and politeness with others...God is the ultimate "guest", yeah?<br />As for manliness; to be protective, careful of other's needs, always in readiness to serve...this is also so apparent in the EF rubrics and customs.<br />The very gentleness, care and protectiveness of the priest's, as well as the other ministers of the altar, for the Sacred Guest, as well as for the faithful, points, in my mind, to the heavenly Father's love. What some might characterize as "formalism" or "dead ritual", is, in fact, a definite respect and love that is made manifest in very determined gestures and rituals.<br />Great meditation, Father!Fr. John Mary, ISJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13093937327145346752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10822481917750555762010-11-05T17:43:59.843+00:002010-11-05T17:43:59.843+00:00Moretben Wrote: "Like it or not, Catholic &qu...Moretben Wrote: "Like it or not, Catholic "Traditionalism" is not traditional Catholicism: it is itself a product of disruption and discontinuity"<br /><br />I think you have a point, which Pope Benedict has gone some way to address in Summorum Pontificum.<br /><br />The Moto proprio returned the EF back into mainstream church life and increasingly it is being integrated into the normal life of the Church by priests like Frs Blake, Basden, Finigan and McSwiney rather than being something separate. <br /><br />At my parish we have an EF Mass on Sunday at 5PM and people sometimes go to the EF only because it is the only evening Mass, which is I think a good thing as people are accepting the Mass is the Mass is the Mass. <br /><br />I like the EF but don't buy into the whole traditionalism package, which appears to include things like homeschooling and seems in some cases to decry everything modern as being associated with forked tails, as I really dont want to be in what seems in some ways to be a Catholic equivalent of the Bluebell Railway. I'm not a traditionalist I'm a Catholic.Paul, Bedfordshirenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70005480065669221702010-11-05T14:05:19.102+00:002010-11-05T14:05:19.102+00:00The first thing I noticed after loading this blog ...The first thing I noticed after loading this blog was the title of this post. I was rather afraid to read any further.shanehttp://lxoa.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-90824604303287557012010-11-05T13:51:52.486+00:002010-11-05T13:51:52.486+00:00Fantastic post, Fr. Ray. You've really hit the...Fantastic post, Fr. Ray. You've really hit the nail on the head here.Mulier Fortishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01186202810919174492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-17496704620054223852010-11-05T13:36:58.850+00:002010-11-05T13:36:58.850+00:00I don't think you are like the angry image in ...I don't think you are like the angry image in my dream Father Ray. To me, It says more about my feelings about myself, and my standing before God,( not standing on the altar obviously). I maybe imagine God is angry with me and my subconscious used you as a representative of Him? I can't really control that, my head tends to dream whatever it wants when I'm asleep. Daydreaming whilst awake is more manageable ;).mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-14309916160479871372010-11-05T12:13:55.774+00:002010-11-05T12:13:55.774+00:00Shadowlands,
I don't do that, I am not a misog...Shadowlands,<br />I don't do that, I am not a misogynist, I rarely shout, never I hope in Church.<br /><br />The Church has aleays warned us about taking dreams too seriously.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-37228294823443420272010-11-05T10:28:16.372+00:002010-11-05T10:28:16.372+00:00A few months ago, I dreamed I had walked onto the ...A few months ago, I dreamed I had walked onto the altar in St Mary Magdalen's and Father Ray shouted at m: "No women allowed!" The funny thing is, I have no desire to be anywhere near the altar (except at Holy Communion). I hope my dream isn't exposing some secret feminist leaning?<br />As for female power and it's effect on the liturgy, we should take a leaf out of St Hilda's book. She was one strong woman and they did the Synod of Whitby, 664 AD at her place, didn't they? So, women can affirm and re-inforce traditional Catholicism, and still empower the men folk!<br /><br />Pray your rosaries. Our Lady sorts your gender roles out properly, no competing in her heart.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.com