tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post4800367978811313106..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Secular clergy are unattractive to the youngFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-3795597254834294542016-05-21T05:32:22.959+01:002016-05-21T05:32:22.959+01:00I would like to qualify my previous comment about ... I would like to qualify my previous comment about the 'orthodoxy' of the Companions of the Cross. On perusing further their website, I see that they have published something of Cardinal Kasper on their website...so perhaps they are not so orthodox.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-27918805016077293372016-05-19T02:42:39.674+01:002016-05-19T02:42:39.674+01:00Francis says "A big issue for potential candi...Francis says "A big issue for potential candidates for the priesthood is whether they want to live on their own all the time, because this is the reality for diocesan priests these days. This is not about celibacy, but about isolation."<br /><br />I think Francis has a point there. There is a "young" order, founded around 1985,in Canada called the Companions of the Cross. They are fast growing, and er...charismatic. Link here: http://www.companionscross.org/<br /><br />The order was "founded" by a diocesan priest,Fr. Bob Bedard who honestly thought there were too many orders, and another one was absolutely not needed. How it started (my understanding-so this could be wrong), was for diocesan seminarians to get together to support each other on their way to be ordained, under the leadership of diocesan priest, Fr.Bob Bedard ( deceased in 2010). The seminarians themselves discerned that they were called to be a community...much to the chagrin of Fr. Bedard. ...who was then their 'founder'.<br /><br />They are very faithful to the Magisterium, in love with Our Lady, have Eucharistic Adoration Chapels in their parishes (one of the parishes has 24 hour adoration, with parishioners signing up as 'committed' adorers for a time for which they are committed to come. A key aspect is that these priests are committed to living in community, and supporting each other. <br /><br />While I find that the charismatic community is way too 'rah rah' for my taste, I have no doubt about the 'orthodoxy' of these priests. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60275991005874489072016-04-30T08:56:04.782+01:002016-04-30T08:56:04.782+01:00There exist several examples, some notorious, of T...There exist several examples, some notorious, of Traditional leaning clergy being victimised by bishops, diocesan curia and priestly associations - to the detriment of parishioners I might add. <br /><br />As to preferment - no chance! Self perpetuating Modernism. Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-42654427022098889432016-04-29T23:00:26.273+01:002016-04-29T23:00:26.273+01:00I think Francis (above, commenting on 23Apr2016, n...I think Francis (above, commenting on 23Apr2016, not the Pope) touched on the heart of the matter in his third paragraph. A lot of it comes down to trust.<br /><br />If you're a secular priest, who've you got in your corner? If anything even mildly controversial comes up, will your bishop have your back? Will your parish, especially if you aren't the most personable sort? Will your fellow priests? Or are they more likely to engage in a bit of rug-pulling? Not to mention that even if your present bishop would, what are the odds that the next one will?<br /><br />On the other hand, become a priest in some traditional institute, and not only will your congregation self-select to be the sort of people most likely to back you up when orthodoxy and tradition come under fire, but both your superiors and your peers are much more likely to, and the culture of such groups is such that the orthodoxy of the leadership is likely to be maintained. If you're certain of a vocation to the priesthood but not certain you're being called specifically to the diocesan priesthood, why not choose the group that'll actually support you?Hrodgarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052168727776803292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-24017255716825256932016-04-26T16:47:49.209+01:002016-04-26T16:47:49.209+01:00Perhaps we should look into why the elder Ayatolla...Perhaps we should look into why the elder Ayatollahs' seem to have the fervent adulation of the younger generations?fzk5220https://www.blogger.com/profile/01071638907026744982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-79584991093629500312016-04-23T10:42:32.455+01:002016-04-23T10:42:32.455+01:00A big issue for potential candidates for the pries...A big issue for potential candidates for the priesthood is whether they want to live on their own all the time, because this is the reality for diocesan priests these days. This is not about celibacy, but about isolation. <br /><br />If I was a young man discerning a priestly vocation, this would be the main consideration. Could I live as an outpost in a quasi-hermitage? In the old days, the 2, 3 or 4 priest presbytery was the norm and there was at least a degree of company. This is why vocations are more plentiful if the priestly life can be lived in community. <br /><br />The other major consideration, if I was a young man, would of course be the F factor. If I'm going to be a lonely outpost, then the rock of Peter must be a massive great rock of stability and reliability in all weathers. Not what we have at the moment. <br /><br />College of Cardinals kindly note. If you want vocations, your vote matters!Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13769697942265014482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-51869649718076982832016-04-22T20:07:14.491+01:002016-04-22T20:07:14.491+01:00The real problem is not a shortage of priests, but...The real problem is not a shortage of priests, but a shortage of people. Who will pay for these priests in twenty years time ?Fr Joseph Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01011002619266030645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-43214833955673720492016-04-22T12:43:58.587+01:002016-04-22T12:43:58.587+01:00We have three men in formation and four about to s...We have three men in formation and four about to start ... It's not enough, but it's an encouraging sign ...<br /><br />Young (and not-so-young!) men ar generally seeking their own will and happiness, rather than God's. We have all been taught to expect that which we want and, especially if we are willing to 'fight' for it, have a right to that which we want. We have to re-learn to want for ourselves what God wants for us - then there will be thousands of vocations. It's not about me - it's about Him!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04327304327849255373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-50009330213696314072016-04-22T12:39:12.249+01:002016-04-22T12:39:12.249+01:00Whether one likes him or not, please pray for Mich...Whether one likes him or not, please pray for Michael Voris and his ministry; God bless him. The recent petty (and I trust fruitless) assault on him only convinces me that he is a 'saint' living among us .. and, God's grace willing with final perseverance, one day shall be recognised as one more honoured Saint on the altars of the Church (like so many other culturally 'difficult' souls, in the feisty spirit of his hero Ven John Fulton Sheen). His so very human flaws only make him more likable .. to those who understand the difference between a flaw repented of and a wrong magnified as if a right.Bless Me Fatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756046461944298085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-48639193498616372112016-04-22T03:54:13.883+01:002016-04-22T03:54:13.883+01:00I am one of those who watches EWTN. Last night the...I am one of those who watches EWTN. Last night there was a programme on which was devoted to the joy and enthusiasm of the priesthood and the very clear evidence that a corner has been turned. The point was made that the Bishop who goes out of his way to seek vocations actually gets them. Another point that in one diocese every newly ordained priest is put into a Catholic school to teach there for three years. The result of that is that the children in the school get to know a young and enthusiastic priest and this then rubs off and promotes vocations.<br />Seeing that, my mind went back to my boyhood (Oh! So long ago!) and the Head (a priest, of course)of my Catholic Boy's Grammar School used to announce from time to time, that he wanted all the boys who were intersted in the priesthood to come to his Office. Once there, we(yes I was one of them) were treated to all sorts of things. We perhaps got biscuits which he had made and he also used to make little paper marionettes and put on a little puppet show! What the result was, is the fact that that school turned out more priests for the Diocese of Leeds than any other school in the whole diocese.<br />Contact is what is required by the boys in the schools. Good, happy, healthy contact.JARayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138004129894177863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60790382894496238432016-04-22T00:14:18.117+01:002016-04-22T00:14:18.117+01:00If I may add Father, I understand you make availab...If I may add Father, I understand you make available to your congregation both the Pauline Mass and the Gregorian Mass. This is good, no excellent!<br /><br />My own certainty is that the Church will pull itself out of the mess it is in at present and that the ancient Mass as set by St Gregory will be a part of this recovery, as will other rites which he permitted such as the Dominican, the Mosarabic, the new excellent Ordinarate rite and of course the Sarum, which I'm sure was in my area. Also, must not forget, the Pauline Mass as it was intended <br /><br />So cheer up!<br /><br />ps : Still interested inn the Sarum rite which I'm sure was used in my area at one timeJacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-83701809339857878172016-04-21T18:57:47.126+01:002016-04-21T18:57:47.126+01:00Sean W.,
I think that is important factor - like a...Sean W.,<br />I think that is important factor - like attracts like - often are parishes are not attractive places for the young and zealous.<br />I have known far too many priests crushed by dreadful parish groups who simply want to hold on to the past, whether it is the 1970s or the last parish priest.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-72834332264752105782016-04-21T17:05:36.553+01:002016-04-21T17:05:36.553+01:00Last feast of St. Philip Neri, I heard a Solemn Ma...Last feast of St. Philip Neri, I heard a Solemn Mass at he Manchester Oratory, also the first anniversary of a priestly ordination their. The bishop preached, made no mention of vocations or the priest's anniversary, but did preach on the laity taking-up the burden of running the diocese parishes. Previously, the fathers were at the Holy Name in Manchester, slap bang in the middle of university land. They made available to students and all access to orthodox Catholicism; a worthy NOM ad orientem with Latin as appropriate; TLM; daily Confessions; Adorations; etc. All well attended. Bureaucracy dictated their move to the new location.<br /><br />The bishop's answer to the problem of clergy shortage, to reduce parish numbers from 150 to 75 and do a deal with developers as to the "surplus" property. Such presbyteries could be used to house the old, the homeless and (Christian) refugees. But Mother Church has abandoned that which was normal in my youth.Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-3330522394430045392016-04-21T13:45:42.573+01:002016-04-21T13:45:42.573+01:00Dear Father Blake, it is not so much the secular c...Dear Father Blake, it is not so much the secular clergy themselves who are unattractive (though many are) -- rather the whole state in life in which secular clergy so often found themselves.<br /><br />In these United States, "parish church" is, in most areas, synonymous with horrendously ugly. Parishes themselves are frequently cesspools of dissent and impiety. One gets the impression that secular clergy here spend all their time dealing with the interminable nonsense drama of their rotten scoundrel parishioners, maybe 10% of the time offering Sacraments and catechesis, and the rest of the time living in fear of the bishop, whose only interest is in maintaining the public appearance of order so he can get a cushier appointment elsewhere. God seldom seems to figure in any of it.<br /><br />For myself I have nearly lost of my faith in the parish environment and am resolved never to subject myself or my family to it. Monasteries for us from now on.Sean W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10085184456489549231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70651116587666580362016-04-21T00:12:13.700+01:002016-04-21T00:12:13.700+01:00Father, if vocation comes from a desire for person...Father, if vocation comes from a desire for personal contact with Jesus, what is your counsel on building such contact ? How do we or rather Jesus root us in Himself ?<br />Stephen Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13100264523989763780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63287869542579811392016-04-20T23:09:43.966+01:002016-04-20T23:09:43.966+01:00I have just attended three mission evenings (not t...I have just attended three mission evenings (not too far from your 'odd little parish') organised by the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal and am most impressed by the devotion, zeal, enthusiasm and sheer joy emanating from these young men. I have not heard of these brothers before. They wear a habit and I understand they live in a community giving their lives to help the poor and homeless.<br /><br />Of course we need Priests but we also need men and women like these in religious orders and perhaps community living is indeed the way forward for secular Priests too.Pelerinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14243859145007696053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-41191394702503844442016-04-20T21:48:51.843+01:002016-04-20T21:48:51.843+01:00When the priests are worn out from true priestly d...When the priests are worn out from true priestly duties administering the sacraments and true catechism, visiting the sick and dying. Then God will see a need for priests. In the west there is not a large need for priests and what there are much of what they should be doing is done by extra to the ordinary folks. They are mostly women. Do not expect vocations if there is very little work for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-15518662075244588032016-04-20T21:43:15.264+01:002016-04-20T21:43:15.264+01:00The same goes for the nuns: the Orders that wear t...The same goes for the nuns: the Orders that wear their habits and live their charism are the ones surviving and growing. And of the young vocations in my acquaintance, all are looking for tradition.M. Prodigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05598092468839468735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70378123094678951272016-04-20T20:02:39.200+01:002016-04-20T20:02:39.200+01:00Plymouth diocese - 3 men currently in formation, a...Plymouth diocese - 3 men currently in formation, and I believe a couple more are acceped to start this autumn. Not nearly enough to replace those retiring or due to retire within the next few years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-77282960728305739792016-04-20T19:52:47.867+01:002016-04-20T19:52:47.867+01:00I think another possible reason why vocations are ...I think another possible reason why vocations are short is that whilst young people may surrender to the judgement of others in practical matters, they never do so on matters of lifestyle and beliefs they only consult their own judgement. In daily life we cannot understand things unless we surrender to the facts first so we can reason and gain understanding - if young people won't surrender to the facts of faith they'll never understand and thus accept.<br /><br /><br />Stephen Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13100264523989763780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-25811514011269052332016-04-20T19:42:31.259+01:002016-04-20T19:42:31.259+01:00Tom & Tony.... This information may have come ...Tom & Tony.... This information may have come from a post that did the rounds a couple of days ago, which said that there were no men entering Westminster Seminary in the new intake (rather than the ones being ordained this year). This post included facts and figures on the relatively large numbers of traditional seminarians which come from a considerably smaller pool which are entering seminary this year via ICKSP, FSSP, SSPX..https://www.blogger.com/profile/08662371444676311196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-56415589223164592092016-04-20T18:39:07.003+01:002016-04-20T18:39:07.003+01:00
This year only 3 (three) seminarist in Buenos Air...<br />This year only 3 (three) seminarist in Buenos Aires are going to be consagrated priest. <br /><br /><br />http://www.clarin.com/zona/Sacerdocio-crisis-vocaciones-impacta-Iglesia_0_1534646820.htmlgustavo rancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15832990424814089458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-77052968697763201132016-04-20T18:21:05.819+01:002016-04-20T18:21:05.819+01:00What I would say in response to Deacon Thomas is t...What I would say in response to Deacon Thomas is that those are all movements which come and go, even in one’s own lifetime. I know many priests who grew up in the charismatic renewal but now love the traditional rite. Tradition is what ought to be passed down to each of us. Yes, Father Blake, you are right in vocations being about authenticity and in following Christ. That is why I have a hard time reckoning with myself when I get upset at faithful people who want to love and serve God but are deeply attached to the worst parts of the reforms, e.g. Communion in the hand and EMHCs. What I would say in response to my own quandary is that we can have things like the charismatic renewal without any problems if we allow the tradition to flourish. The default Novus Ordo culture in the charismatic renewal alienated traditionalists. I really like quiet Holy Hours with solemn Benediction, with Latin chants, structured prayers (like the ICRSS Divine Infant prayers), etc. at the end. I am attached to the traditional Mass. There may very well be a place for praise music (I don’t call it praise and worship!), even as there are all those wonderful moments on events like the Chartres walk... Though to be honest it ought to be even outside Exposition, or at least kept to a minimum. (I have thought much about this as a traditionally-minded person at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, perhaps the heart of the charismatic renewal in the USA.) Matthew Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00958673318312786618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-44892195766718762672016-04-20T17:06:11.974+01:002016-04-20T17:06:11.974+01:00Tony Thomas makes the interesting point about the ...Tony Thomas makes the interesting point about the role of community or "groups" in the development and more crucially the on-going support of vocations. I suspect that the dynamic or character of the group is less important that the existence of the group per se.<br /><br />The issue I have with the Church and its “groups” and “movements” is their failure to evangelise. Whilst they can provide support to those young Catholics who desperately need it which is good, they also tend to be inward looking and by their nature fail to create autonomous Catholics.<br /><br />I sense new evangelisation is rather like neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism. The qualifying adjective negates the noun it is describing despite claims to the contrary. We have all seen the chaos that the latter two phenomena have caused in economics and politics respectively.Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-57785568455399588372016-04-20T16:29:58.190+01:002016-04-20T16:29:58.190+01:00In our diocese the Quo Vadis Days discernment week...In our diocese the Quo Vadis Days discernment weekend has apparently begun to bear fruit -- it is an opportunity for young men to meet pray and talk to many different priests who they might see as models and to get peer support knowing that 30 or 40 or 50 other young men from the diocese are also considering a religious vocation, something the world considers impossible. And it helps that we have a good group of young priests out and about particularly as high school chaplains and so forth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com