tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post6908562263720207575..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: These shall be the signsFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-56483192336903286212012-06-23T15:51:36.696+01:002012-06-23T15:51:36.696+01:00This is something I've been reading about for ...This is something I've been reading about for a while. I am a traditional Catholic (by that I mean I am obedient to the teachings of the Catholic Church; love the Pope; strive to be a Saint, fail daily, etc) who would attend the EF mostly if it was available in my area. I am also trying to live a Carmelite way of life; I would never imagine myself ever ever being led to the Catholic Charismatic Movement. BUT recently the good Lord is turning my world upside down! After a deep contemplative prayer experience He gave me a hunger for praying in tongues. All I could say was - you know I have never sought anything like that Lord, but if you will it I will not refuse your gift. I prayed a general Holy Spirit prayer for 9 days and sure enough He blessed me with the gift of praying in tongues. I had no idea what to do with it; and was considering attending a CCM prayer meeting. Eventually I worked out a routine of incorporating praying in tongues in my daily prayers (always holding a blessed and anointed w exorcism oil rosary!), and the second reading on the Sacred Heart of Jesus calmed and consoled me greatly! I read Sober intoxication of the Holy Spirit by Fr. Cantalamessa which confirmed to me that some groups can be excellent and their members go out to serve the Church, and others who appear to turn in on themselves for the 'emotion' 'self praise' - but as in any church movement or group - you will know them by their fruits. There are many traditionalists who are the most judgemental and morose Catholics you will ever some across. I don't like the terms Healing Mass or Charismatic Mass - all Masses are healing; all should be charismatic as in the Holy Spirit is there working on us all. Anything else is using the Universal Mass for a particular group's own ends, which surely is an abuse? I like this 'new' way of thinking, back to basics! May the Lord bless you all on your journey to Him.akp5401https://www.blogger.com/profile/16223091629880680437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-6727667963350927702012-05-25T13:17:40.859+01:002012-05-25T13:17:40.859+01:00Shadowlands,
When did I say I was making judgm...Shadowlands,<br /> When did I say I was making judgments about anyone's souls? When the Arians were around, you could conclude that they (including Bishops) were wrong on the issue of Christ's nature, without ever considering the state of their souls.<br /> You can be "forced" by conscience and logic. Not everything is "spiritual," in the sense you are using it.<br /><br />Peace,<br />CosmosCosmosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-77560018218415743832012-05-22T09:12:03.639+01:002012-05-22T09:12:03.639+01:00Cosmos said:
"I feel forced to choose betwee...Cosmos said:<br /><br />"I feel forced to choose between well-reasoned men speaking in line with tradition, or Church authorities (including JPII)"<br /><br />You 'feel' forced? Your will must choose to either obey the hierarchy or protest against it.<br />Which one is it?<br /><br />You don't have to join in with Charismatic type events if you don't want to. You don't have to seek to make some sort of a judgment about them either, the Magisterium has not demanded this of you. It is not your role(unless you are a Cardinal or theologian or both?).<br /><br />Any 'force' that you 'feel' I would suggest you ignore, it is not sent by God.<br /><br />You will be safer that way, from making unqualified, unauthorised judgments about people's souls.<br /><br />Just be the best and holiest Catholic you can be and pray for others to be the same.<br /><br />God bless, I wish you peace.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-19958591857913051572012-05-21T19:05:32.151+01:002012-05-21T19:05:32.151+01:00It's very confusing (very, very confusing) to ...It's very confusing (very, very confusing) to have all of these intelligent people, including the great Fr. Hardon, make all these completely reasonable points about the charismatic movement from within the Tradition, yet still see the hierarchy support the movement with flowery praise. <br /><br />I feel forced to choose between well-reasoned men speaking in line with tradition, or Church authorities (including JPII) who have read the sign of the times see "movements" as God's chosen means for reaching the world, despite all of their anti-traditional tendencies. <br /><br />My tendency is to go with tradition over novelty, and natural law over positive law, so I end up often opposed to the hierarchy in opposing groups who oppose the hierarchy. Its a fun time to be Catholic!Cosmosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-65948255359865575672012-05-21T17:48:07.540+01:002012-05-21T17:48:07.540+01:00It wouldn't do anyone here any harm to listen ...It wouldn't do anyone here any harm to listen to 22:40 - 28:00 of this:<br /><b>http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1148251 </b>, the homily of the new Papal Nuncio to Ireland available until 27th May 2012epsilonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785182500278281351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-51981621647565406592012-05-21T16:54:48.439+01:002012-05-21T16:54:48.439+01:00Thanks to muriel from seaford, I have been reading...Thanks to muriel from seaford, I have been reading the comments regarding Mgr Wadsworth's talk on the praytell blog - a blog which I have not encountered before.<br /><br />Mgr Wadsworth himself joined in the comments discussion which made it especially interesting.<br /><br />However not all the comments were favourable and I was amused to read one which said we were a 'captive audience' that night (perhaps Fr Ray locked the doors?!) and one suggested people should 'note their median age.' I actually thought that there was a good cross section of ages there that night. After all two of the questioners were certainly not in the older age group.pelerinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-82555027692140374032012-05-21T06:27:13.112+01:002012-05-21T06:27:13.112+01:00I agree with ORA PRO NOBIS as they seem to be spea...I agree with ORA PRO NOBIS as they seem to be speaking with unbiased common sense.<br /><br />Maybe the Holy Spirit is seeking to unite Catholics as one (well of course He is!) even with our diversities? We can each pray for the other's salvation (thereby fulfilling the rule to build each other up).<br /><br />We are indeed, ALL called to be saints. We must obey the Church's teachings, whatever our preferred form of worship and seek holiness. If we fail, pick ourselves up, (confessions)dust ourselves off (penance)and start all over again(forgiven)!<br /><br />On and on until the end.<br /><br />And it ain't over yet brothers and sisters....<br /><br />Oooops! sorry, did that sound a bit proddy? I do like their worship songs.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-61338691955766151352012-05-20T21:27:13.172+01:002012-05-20T21:27:13.172+01:00I see fr wadsworth's talk is being discussed o...I see fr wadsworth's talk is being discussed on the praytell blog now father.muriel from seafordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-15259917540990167002012-05-20T17:55:00.190+01:002012-05-20T17:55:00.190+01:00Blessed Alexandrina had roughly 182 (what are know...Blessed Alexandrina had roughly 182 (what are known as) ecstasies when she relived the Passion 182 times and also undertook a 13 year Eucharistic fast i.e. she did not eat for 13 years. The Vatican have also rubber stamped the fact that Padre Pio could bi-locate i.e. be in two places at the same time. Beyond this he knew the state of men’s souls without them even having to open their mouths. <br /><br />So it is time for pew sitters, Latinists, Traditionalists and liberals to all make their mind and decide whether they believe in scripture and the Magisterium of the church and accept that bazaar things do happen which are known as charisms which the Church fully accepts.<br /><br />Before I am accused of being a raving Charismatic go to my blog and then try and state that I am. It is about as traditional as it can get. However, I do 100% believe in the Bible and the Magisterium of the Church.<br /><br />It is interesting to note that at Brigg in North Lincolnshire the priest has not only re-instated the altar rail and many of the original Catholic traditions but, also has introduced a course specifically to bring back the charisms of the Church. The shocking news for traditionalists is that *SHOCK HORROR* the charisms are part of the traditions of the Catholic Church.ORA PRO NOBIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17546605493757534530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-39474951098894287172012-05-20T17:54:03.806+01:002012-05-20T17:54:03.806+01:00Part One -
I really think it is time for pew sit...Part One - <br /><br />I really think it is time for pew sitters, Latinists, traditionalists, charismatics and liberals to either 'put up' or find a different church to go to every Sunday. You either believe in scripture and the Magisterium of the Church or you do not. It is as simple as that.<br /><br />I suspect that I am about to state a few things that neither traditionalists nor charismatics will like. <br /><br />I first of all want to back up Fr. Ray by categorically stating that there is no such thing as a charismatic or healing Mass. He is 100% correct and it is non-arguable, however much they/you want it to be true.<br /><br />However, <br /><br />1) there are Masses (OF/EF) which are then followed by a time of healing.<br /><br />2) there are OF masses which are conducted during charismatic conferences. There is never any part of those masses that have a specific 'charismatic' element (or additional wording).<br /><br />Shadowlands - take it from someone who knows (and a traditionalist at that) - As I said earlier to Fr. Ray - those charisms where given to certain people who then decided to become their own separate charismatic renewal group. Before this group came about the charisms where given to people who where spread throughout the Body of Christ (to be honest they still are). Those in charismatic renewal are supposed to go out from these experiences/conferences and build up their own spirituality so that:<br /><br />1) They can take an active role in their own salvation<br />2) They can help others attain their salvation<br />3) they can build up God's kingdom<br />4. They can build up The body of Christ.<br /><br />However, what happened was that most became involved in what is now known as the 'charismatic jungle' who chased from one conference to the next, and were only in it for 'the tingle' (sorry to quote Americanised charismatic speak but, I think the wording actually makes it easier to understand what is going on). <br /><br />At their conferences they <br /><br />1) speak in tongues<br />2) have healing sessions where some people are genuinely healed (but not every time - God is not a vending machine) <br />3) people do fall out in the spirit (though some do put it on and it is blatantly obvious when you see it).<br />4) there is sometime deliverance (note that this is not the same as exorcism) occurring which can be scary the first time you see it because people literally start shaking violently.<br />5) There is a lot more to it than these four things! If you haven't read about Padre Pio, St. Catherine or Blessed Alexandrina then you haven't seen nothing yet! These things are just the tip of the ice berg. However the charisms can also be very small and make up a part of every day life without other people even noticing.<br /><br />Now we have a major problem in the Church because:<br /><br />1) We have the charismatics who are basically not doing what they are told to by their leadership and not building up the Church. <br /><br />2) We then have the traditionalist who deny the works of the Holy Spirit. By denying the works of the Holy Spirit they are denying scripture and the Magisterium of the Church. They are hypocrites because they say that they believe scripture & the Magisterium and then go on in the next breath to deny the charisms which also played a major part in the lives of the saints they say they have a devotion to.<br /><br />3. We then have the brigade that say that the charisms where only meant for Pentecost. If that is true then why go on and state you are faithful to the Magisterium of the Church. After all Padre Pio, St. Catherine, St John Vianney and Blessed Alexandrina had more charismatic events in their lives that you can shake a stick at.<br /><br />4) We then have the brigade who say that the charisms where meant for saints and not for everyday people. This is a ridiculous notion because they were not saints when they had their first charismatic experience. Neither were they uber-holy the first time they ever had a charismatic experience. It was through having charismatic experiences that they were able to grow in holiness.ORA PRO NOBIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17546605493757534530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-87603863671833780722012-05-20T17:25:06.577+01:002012-05-20T17:25:06.577+01:00CATHOLIC PENTECOSTALS
~ The Risk Is Too Great ~
...CATHOLIC PENTECOSTALS<br /><br />~ The Risk Is Too Great ~<br /><br />HILARY CAMPION<br /><br />The Second Vatican Council says that when we look at the lives of the Saints we are shown a most safe path by which, among the vicissitudes of this world and in keeping with the state of life and condition proper to each of us, we will be able to arrive at perfect union with Christ, that is, holiness. It has been my experience that this "most safe path" of the Saints and the path of the Charismatic Renewal are very different ways, so different that charity and alarm compel me to speak out. The spirit of the Charismatic Renewal is simply not the spirit by which these sons and daughters of God were led.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2000/features_feb00.htmlServusMariaeNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13963287463957393931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-75428124333696686602012-05-20T16:25:58.183+01:002012-05-20T16:25:58.183+01:00Father Ray said:
What is a Charismatic Mass?
What...Father Ray said:<br /><br />What is a Charismatic Mass?<br />What is a Healing Mass, to?<br />These are not terms found in the Roman Missal.<br /><br />All Masses are healing Masses really. But if you want the explanation from a Charismatic website, here is a link:<br />http://www.hartfordcharismatic.org/fmHealingMass.html<br /><br />In a charismatic Mass, I would say (without authority mind you)that it's the style of worship (music, prayer) that might single it out from other ordinary form Masses. <br /><br />It would follow church rubrics though, naturally. (or should that be super-naturally?)shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-90277908217458496802012-05-20T16:02:35.196+01:002012-05-20T16:02:35.196+01:00~~Mikesview,
Quite!
and Shadowlands,
What is a Ch...~~Mikesview,<br />Quite!<br /><br />and Shadowlands,<br />What is a Charismatic Mass?<br />What is a Healing Mass, to?<br />These are not terms found in the Roman Missal.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-34810900304308802812012-05-20T15:30:34.646+01:002012-05-20T15:30:34.646+01:00Father, some of your posters seem to have made a d...Father, some of your posters seem to have made a difference between "traditionalists and Latinists". Could I ask for a definition of these terms. One could also ask where do conservatives fit into the spectrum.<br />While we're about it, could we be a lot clearer about what we mean by terms such as 'charism', 'charismatic', and 'the Charismatic Movement'.<br />In case anyone thinks I am being obscurantist, imagine a statement such as: all Medjugorj-ists are charismatics and Latinists and conservatives and traditionalists. Can you be a Latinist without being a traditionalist? Are charismatics always conservatives?mikesviewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-56909841309922789282012-05-20T14:07:37.957+01:002012-05-20T14:07:37.957+01:00Epsilon
From what I can gather lately (and I do n...Epsilon<br /><br />From what I can gather lately (and I do not attend Charismatic Masses or prayer groups) the emphasis is very much now placed on the Eucharist, the Rosary and ever increasing personal holiness, or an attempt at the latter.<br /><br />I do think in the past, there was less attention given to the Sacraments though, and more protestant type preaching etc.<br /><br />As you say, balancing acts need practice.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-62765175980273703662012-05-20T14:00:53.878+01:002012-05-20T14:00:53.878+01:00I'll let FATHER JOHN HARDON SPEAK:
Historical...I'll let FATHER JOHN HARDON SPEAK:<br /><br />Historical Background<br /><br />The essentials of the Pentecostalism we know today began with the Reformation in the sixteenth century as a complement to Biblicism. The two together have formed an inseparable duality in historic Protestantism.<br /><br />Where the Bible was canonized in the phrase, Sola Scriptura, as the sole repository of divine revelation, the indwelling Holy Spirit in the heart of every believer was invoked as the only criterion for interpreting the Scriptures or even for recognizing their canonicity. Thus Solo Spiritu became the basic principle of direction in the life of a Christian, in place of the professedly divine guidance by the Spirit residing in the papacy and the Catholic hierarchy.<br /><br />Pentecostalism turned sectarian in the nineteenth century when groups like the Irvingites, Shakers, and Mormons broke away from their parent bodies over what they said was indifference in the established Protestant churches to external manifestations of the presence in converted believers of the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />What gave these sectarian groups theological rootage was the parallel rise of the Holiness movement among Methodists. Experience of conversion and an awareness of the Spirit had always been prominent in Wesleyan thought. With the advent of biblical criticism and the solvent of rationalism, many followers of Wesley fell back almost exclusively on personal experience as a sign of God’s saving presence.<br /><br />When some of these Holiness groups affiliated with the Irvingites and their counterparts, modern Pentecostalism was born.<br /><br />Some would date the beginning with 1900, but, more accurately, from 1900 on the Pentecostal movement began its denominational period. One after another, new congregations were formed or old ones changed to become Pentecostal in principle and policy. By 1971, some 200 distinct denominations in America qualified as Pentecostals. While total membership is uncertain, ten million in the United States is not too high a figure. Outside North America, the largest contingent is in South America, where Pentecostal missionaries from the States have successfully evangelized in every country below the Rio Grande. Brazil alone has four million, of whom 1,800,000 are communicants; mainly converts who were originally baptized Catholics.<br /><br />The most recent development in Pentecostalism was the ecumenical collaboration with Catholic groups in the United States, at first cautious, then bolder, and now becoming a pattern that gave rise to what some call “Catholic Pentecostalism,” but others prefer to say is “The Pentecostal Movement in the Catholic Church.”<br /><br />From this point on, my concern will be uniquely with this latest development, seen through the eyes of its dedicated followers and described by men and women who believe they are, and wish to remain, loyal Catholics but honestly believe that a new dimension should be added to the concept of Catholicism before it was touched by the present outpouring of the Pentecostal grace of the Spirit.<br />http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Protestantism/Protestantism_002.htmServusMariaeNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13963287463957393931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60375453233380853262012-05-20T13:22:58.443+01:002012-05-20T13:22:58.443+01:00Adulo said
"How many charismatics are willin...Adulo said<br /><br />"How many charismatics are willing to be obedient to the church, when it comes to things like Medjugorje?"<br /><br />Adulo,<br />I was not aware the Church had issued a final statement/judgment for Catholics to be obedient to, in regards to Medjugorje.<br /><br />Perhaps you might save your own personal judgment of fellow Catholics until such a time?<br />Presumption is a sin in the Catholic faith you know, quite a serious one I believe.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63782430327424147072012-05-20T11:09:55.854+01:002012-05-20T11:09:55.854+01:00How many charismatics are willing to be obedient t...How many charismatics are willing to be obedient to the church, when it comes to things like Medjugorje?Adulionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-33446024041177504822012-05-20T09:25:04.115+01:002012-05-20T09:25:04.115+01:00Shadowlands I agree with you that you can come acr...Shadowlands I agree with you that you can come across extremely un-Christian people among those who claim to be traditional Catholic laypeople. Some as outand proud as any sohomasser, others using it as a badge of exclusivity, nationalism or downright racism. The difference I'm talking about is in how the priests and/or lay leaders on the Charismatic side in my limited experience all seem to be very lax in the way they present the Catholic faith. In other words they seem to be all embracing to an extreme such that the as well as the sinner is welcomed. <br /><br />Getting the balance right between tolerance and intolerance seems to be difficult for us all!epsilonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785182500278281351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-61384239433624246792012-05-20T08:26:32.384+01:002012-05-20T08:26:32.384+01:00Servusmariaen, your thesis might be plausible if y...Servusmariaen, your thesis might be plausible if you could demonstrate that there would be no pentecostal/charismatic movement had there been no Protestant Reformation.Michael Peteknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-64214649493332398882012-05-20T07:27:44.920+01:002012-05-20T07:27:44.920+01:00John Nolan
You've been harbouring those senti...John Nolan<br /><br />You've been harbouring those sentiments since the seventies? Time to look with fresh eyes but first you'll need to get your heart renewed. Confession is a good way, I've personally found, also praying for those you dislike.<br /><br />servusmariaen said:<br /><br />'I see this all touched a raw nerve.'<br /><br />Well some of the comments here have attacked the characters of charismatics, not just their beliefs. As a daughter of a faithful Catholic, who is also a charismatic, yes, the comments touched a raw nerve. I think any decent person here, if their family member's character were blasted would sense some unease surely? <br /><br /><br />"I have nothing against Charismatic prayer groups, bible studies etc. but equating the modern Pentecostalist movement with the charisms of saints and holy people throughout the history of the Church is a bit of a stretch."<br /><br />As charisms are gifts of the Holy Spirit and we are taught by our Catholic doctrine that they are received by all Catholics at Comfirmation Are you suggesting by the above comment, that there is a different spirit at work in charismatics then? How many Holy Spirit's are there?<br /><br />The important thing for any 'ordinary' Catholic stopping by and maybe reading this thread, is to know that the Popes have blessed the Charismatic Movement.<br /><br />The Popes have the final say. All other people's words are opinions or shared experiences. They hold no power as regards Church teaching though.<br /><br />I appreciate some people have had bad experiences with their fellow Catholics who have got involved in the Charismatic Movement but I also have had bad experiences with fellow Catholics, two of them were the most traditional Catholics one would ever have met. They were not good people though. Far from it. This does not make me rubbish all traditional Catholics.<br /><br />If the Holy Spirit is choosing to blow in a place where we don't personally 'will' Him to, lets remember, it's His choice, not ours.<br /><br />John 2:28 "I will pour out my Spirit on ALL the earth"<br /><br />"Douay-Rheims Bible John 3:8<br />The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. <br /><br />Let's resist the trend to claim that our way is the way. The Church allows diversity within as long as it is in keeping with Church doctrine. The Church has deemed that Charismatic renewal is kosher, so even if you don't like it, you can still love the brother who's faith you can't understand.<br /><br />Remeber the unfriendly nun in 'A song for Bernadette?' She hated Bernadette, thinking that she thought herself better than others. Once she saw the suffering that St Bernadette was enduring, her heart melted.<br /><br />I speak to the Holy Spirit as a person, which He is. I trust Him for ideas when I am flummoxed ( I'm often flummoxed)and He helps me. I love Him and know Him as a seperate person to Jesus and the Father. <br /><br />He loves each of us the same. We don't need to box Him up and claim sole ownership of His movements.<br /><br />Just ask the Father to reveal Him to you. He will.<br />Douay-Rheims Bible Luke 11:13<br />If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from heaven give the good Spirit to them that ask him? <br /><br />God bless all, love one another.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10708763817613512422012-05-20T00:43:07.404+01:002012-05-20T00:43:07.404+01:00I see this all touched a raw nerve. The point no o...I see this all touched a raw nerve. The point no one wants to address in this is the roots of modern Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement. I have nothing against Charismatic prayer groups, bible studies etc. but equating the modern Pentecostalist movement with the charisms of saints and holy people throughout the history of the Church is a bit of a stretch. I can only speak with my own personal experience with Catholic "Charismatics" who left the faith and went to purely "Pentecostal" communities. Is there good that comes from Charismatics? Of course there is but that doesn't take away from the fact that the root of modern Pentecostalism is rooted in Protestantism here in America. The one time staunch Catholic cousin of my father (who so wanted him to marry a Catholic that my father said she wouldn't use a toilet if it wasn't Catholic) became involved in the Charismatic movement in the early 70s. An itinerant Pentecostal preacher came to town for a revival and we all went with her family to hear him preach. I found this odd even at 6 years old. She never stepped foot in a Catholic Church again, slain in the spirit, received the gift of glossalalia, prophecy etc and promptly told us that, "the Mass wasn't going to save our ass"....My sister's godmother went the same route, left religious life, married, became a Charismatic received the gifts of glossalalia (no one was ever around to interpret per Paul's teaching) and they all happily left the Catholic faith and went over to be full fledged Pentecostals and these aren't isolated cases. I know quite a few. <br />Those Charismatics who have remained faithful Catholics I think are by and large those formed in the traditions of the Church.ServusMariaeNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13963287463957393931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-46056740206029701302012-05-19T21:53:23.442+01:002012-05-19T21:53:23.442+01:00I first came across Catholic 'charismatics'...I first came across Catholic 'charismatics' in the 1970s and they were, to a man, a pain in the proverbial. Smug, self-centred, anti-liturgical and verging on the heretical. It was a waste of time trying to reason with them. Anathema sint.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-8728646047792342972012-05-19T20:28:20.279+01:002012-05-19T20:28:20.279+01:00Sorry - altar- an uncooperative touch screen:) bef...Sorry - altar- an uncooperative touch screen:) before I get rapped on the knuckles!epsilonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785182500278281351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60831703864174676222012-05-19T17:37:20.824+01:002012-05-19T17:37:20.824+01:00My experience is not good - two examples: ...My experience is not good - two examples: <br />One young priest really into charismatic stuff also into liberation theology! Not so keen on discussing abortion:(<br />Another older priest hearing confessions right next to the Blessed Sacrament exposed on the alter, except it didn't look like confession, more a friendly chat with lots of smiling and nodding, everyone else too busy being healed (a euphemism for chatting in pairs around the chapel) to kneel in adoration in front of the Blessed Sacrament.<br /><br />Both priests very kind and caring but are they leading Catholics to heaven or somewhere else?epsilonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785182500278281351noreply@blogger.com