tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post7527131351130924408..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: The Liturgical EntertainmentFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-50799277862133626002010-08-24T12:48:51.262+01:002010-08-24T12:48:51.262+01:00Maybe this will make shine Jesus shine tolerable?
...Maybe this will make shine Jesus shine tolerable?<br /><br />Domine, lux amoris tuae fulget, <br />fulgens in medias tenebras; <br />Jesu, Lux Mundi, nobis adfulge, <br />libera nos per veritatem quam nunc nobis adfers. <br />Adfulge mihi, adfulge.<br />Fulge, Jesu, fulge. Hanc terram gloria Patris imple. <br />Arde, Spiritus, arde. Corda nostra accende. <br />Flue, Flumen, flue gratia et misericordia gentes inunda. <br />Domine, emitte verbum tuum et fiat lux.<br /><br />2 Domine, veni ex tenebris in conspectum <br />numinosum tuumet in lucem tuam. <br />Per sanguinem licet mihi ut splendorem tuum intrem. <br />Me perscrutare, me tempta, tenebras meas totas consume. <br />Adfulge mihi, adfulge.<br />Fulge, Jesu, fulge. &c..<br /><br />2 Sicut splendorem regalem tuum contemplamur, <br />sic vultus nostri exhibeant imaginem tuam, <br />gloriam gloria mutantes, <br />vitae nostrae acta tua, hic reddita, narrent. <br />Adfulge mihi, adfulge. <br />Fulge, Jesu, fulge. &c..Martha Buxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-66408946810195323672010-08-23T18:19:42.858+01:002010-08-23T18:19:42.858+01:00Inasmuch as the Holy Father quite clearly beleives...Inasmuch as the Holy Father quite clearly beleives that sacred music should reinforce or enable our sense of awe at encountering the mystery that is God, I would strongly suspect that a part of the Anglican patrimony about which <i>Anglicanorum cœtibus</i> speaks is transcendent and truly sacred music. Consequently, I am baffled why the music of Byrd or Tallis (if not both) is not included amongst the music at the Vigil. Both were clearly Catholic, from Catholic families, and their music is transcendent. Seeing this sterile programme now published gives me considerable consolation that I did not subscribe to the guided group tour from the US to the beatification that is organized by the Cardinal Newman Society here in the States. But that is all the solace it provides, considering next year's intended European holiday (including time in England/Scotland). The state of liturgy in the UK seems about as bad as it is here in the US.<br /><br />Pax et bonum,<br />Keith TöpferMartial Artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679584221923893460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-89022326922417234702010-08-23T10:23:47.885+01:002010-08-23T10:23:47.885+01:00Spare a thought for those of us who are representi...Spare a thought for those of us who are representing our Parishes and Diocese in the choir. Along with a few others I am trying to get my head around Halleujah Chorus and Shine Jesus Shine being in the same litugy. Alas we are called to make sacrifices in our lives, perhaps this is one for some of us) and we can implore our Lord that they are accepted for the salvation of souls and the conversion of our country. Thankfully God's grace and mercy can 'shine' through regardlessannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13103891949842655392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-38015142009622963312010-08-21T14:36:32.196+01:002010-08-21T14:36:32.196+01:00Et Expecto said...
Do they know that Shine Jesus S...<i>Et Expecto said...<br />Do they know that Shine Jesus Shine was voted the worst hymn ever written?</i><br /><br />Are you sure about that? I thought that honour went to <i>Colours of Day</i>Newminsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-65882061282029003032010-08-21T01:15:37.541+01:002010-08-21T01:15:37.541+01:00Why is everyone so worked up over this? This is me...Why is everyone so worked up over this? This is merely a prayer vigil not a liturgical event. Therefore the liturgical norms on what constitutes sacred music need not necessarily apply. For example, at non-liturgical events like Novenas, etc. Catholics sing even more trite, overly sappy hymns (dare I say Newman's contemporary, Fr Faber was the writer for much of them).<br /><br />The music which will be sung at the Mass at Westminster Cathedral just a few hours before this event, and again at the beatification Mass a few hours after this event should leave everyone in no doubt what authentic Catholic liturgy should look and sound like.<br /><br />This is just a prayer meeting. No big deal.justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15441632434304154517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-9316183398879294332010-08-20T22:26:17.285+01:002010-08-20T22:26:17.285+01:00Pelerin on Shine Jesus Shine:
"This particul...Pelerin on Shine Jesus Shine:<br /><br />"This particular hymn merely produces amusement among adults certainly not prayer."<br /><br />I'm afraid you're wrong. It doesn't produce amusement from me.<br /><br />Nausea, yes.<br /><br />Amusement, no.Jonathan Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03955408376728340845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70459729090401775742010-08-20T22:10:03.582+01:002010-08-20T22:10:03.582+01:00There is an item in the Catholic Herald this week ...There is an item in the Catholic Herald this week saying that 'The Priests' are going to be singing at the Hyde Park vigil. So one piece of good news for the 'entertainment' there.pelerinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-88382528426275939962010-08-20T09:38:58.256+01:002010-08-20T09:38:58.256+01:00Praise to the Holiest in the Height, anyone?Praise to the Holiest in the Height, anyone?georgemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-46371996140810671242010-08-20T09:05:34.912+01:002010-08-20T09:05:34.912+01:00Father Clifton
Thank you for taking the time to m...Father Clifton<br /><br />Thank you for taking the time to make your comment. I appreciate it.<br />I was once less than gracious to you, in a comment on your blog, and now seems like a good time to publicly say sorry for that. I often act first, then think later. I am truly sorry for my comment Father. I hope you will forgive me.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-88056764765093210262010-08-20T08:58:39.697+01:002010-08-20T08:58:39.697+01:00Hestor
If I had read your comment yeaterday, I wo...Hestor<br /><br />If I had read your comment yeaterday, I would have turned into a Mooney, for sure. However, my emotional explosion had already happened, and I am going to offer part of my rosary for you instead. For some reason, I felt a tremendous sense of the love that God has for you, when I read your comment. Not natural in my sensitve and easily bumped spirit. I love it when that happens, really convinces mr of God's power at work, inspite of myself.<br /><br />What a mighty God we serve, eh? <br /><br />By the way, what does banal and asinine actually mean? It sounds dead posh. I might start putting it im my 'about me' description.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-37908897191121908342010-08-20T07:45:42.513+01:002010-08-20T07:45:42.513+01:00They forgot "I wish I was a fuzzy, fuzzy bear...They forgot "I wish I was a fuzzy, fuzzy bear" which used to be sung at the school attended by my children!<br /><br />Where is Elgar? Where is the "Dream of Gerontius"? Where is anything other than a mimimal connection with Newman? Where in the spirit of Anglicanorum Coetibus is there anything connecting with the English Cathedral tradition of church music? Why not apropriate what is among what is best culturally, musically, and with theological content?<br /><br />Sheridan Gilley speaks of the " philistinism of English Roman Catholicism, which has spent a generation destroying everything that was most beautiful about itself"("The Ecclesiology of the Oxford Movement:a Reconsideration", Nova I.1 (1996), p 9). The replacement of worship by entertainment would appear to be part of this process.Independentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-58900073431559000052010-08-19T20:54:47.486+01:002010-08-19T20:54:47.486+01:00Glad I am 1000 miles away. The liturgy is always a...Glad I am 1000 miles away. The liturgy is always at least OK and I have never come across any music that was less than respectable for a Catholic liturgy, even though there tends to be a shortage of Latin chant (Gregorian Chant in Swedish is the norm which really I am quite coming to like).Physiocrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13682019625346594568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-20315081804711021192010-08-19T20:01:32.863+01:002010-08-19T20:01:32.863+01:00And here was I thinking that the Holy Father liked...And here was I thinking that the Holy Father liked to talk about the synthesis of faith and reason, or faith being something in which one matures, or the hermeneutic of continuity (to borrow a phrase). Seems like those who are putting the entertainment have never heard of any of this. But, as has been said, perhaps it is best as it is, so that the Holy Father (if he didn't already) can really know just how bad things are in this vale of tears.universal doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16799857998804342261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-12977308775393426992010-08-19T16:23:57.528+01:002010-08-19T16:23:57.528+01:00Copernicus and Shadowlands. You are perhaps missin...Copernicus and Shadowlands. You are perhaps missing the point which others are trying to make here that the music represents the type we are used too and that type is deeply unsatisfactory. It fails to satify the basic premise of prayer, the raising of the mind and heart to God in prayer. Instead it represents a kind of low brow pop approach, lets all be happy. Incidentally if it is pouring down they might add in "Our God reigns (rains) and for the 7 year old "If I were a butterfly"Michael Cliftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568515640292864739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-79416403153215305572010-08-19T15:58:41.718+01:002010-08-19T15:58:41.718+01:00Trust shadowlands to stick up for what is banal an...Trust shadowlands to stick up for what is banal and asinine...Aduliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00534730218402742905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-12418518057163533382010-08-19T12:21:53.740+01:002010-08-19T12:21:53.740+01:00The programme presumably reflects the current stat...The programme presumably reflects the current state of the Catholic Church in E&W so is it not better that it is as it is so his Holiness can appreciate just how awful things are?<br /><br />I thought yesterday's epistle about poor shepherding and lost sheep was particularly apt.santoeusebiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07032325567755620919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-91038106861553706022010-08-19T10:31:20.270+01:002010-08-19T10:31:20.270+01:00Hello!
Thank you for posting this up.
I hope y...Hello! <br /><br />Thank you for posting this up. <br /><br />I hope you don´t mind that I´ve referenced it in my own blog. I´ve written a piece on why I don´t think the entertainment reflects the young Catholic Church. Considering this event is meant to be for young people, the selection´s pretty poor.<br /><br />http://bit.ly/bBnG3bUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11354522225322190033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-4334247074335610912010-08-19T09:28:57.486+01:002010-08-19T09:28:57.486+01:00Serious question, does the Pope dislike 'shine...Serious question, does the Pope dislike 'shine Jesus shine'? Has he specifically said so? This hymn is the most talked about on blogger. I actually bought the Grahame Kendrick album, back in the day......I also went to see him in concert at the N.E.C. Then there were the Maranatha singers, they were Americans....aaaah yes, memories of wayward Vat 2 youth, when it was Ok to have a guitar hanging off your garments and a tambourine tinkling at the side of you!<br />I don't think fellow Catholics should perceive this choice as against them, or a two finger salute. It's part of their Catholic identity, we wouldn't look on people's past relics or statues as insulting, so try and see that some people met Jesus through songs like these, met Him as a person. It was all they had, as their experience.<br /><br />I suppose it is very inclusive and encourages one to believe that the Holy Spirit might indeed, one day, despite our protestations ( both catholic and protestant) be poured out on ALL flesh. The Holy Spirit will insist on blowing where He Wills, it seems....<br /><br /><br />I like the last verse best.Here it is, for those who missed it.<br /><br />Lord, I come into Your awesome presence<br />From the shadows into Your radiance<br />By the blood I may enter Your brightness<br />Search me, try me, consume all my darkness<br />Shine on me<br />Shine on me<br /><br />chorus.......<br /><br />Bet it's in everyone's head now, even if they do hate it!<br /><br />Perhaps, in order to find some spiritual good use for it, Father's should give it as a penance ! ;)mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13588712147418669372010-08-19T08:53:00.161+01:002010-08-19T08:53:00.161+01:00I think the organisers have done a great service b...I think the organisers have done a great service by selecting the content, so typical of the mainstream church.<br /><br />It will show the Holy Father at first hand, the perilous state of the Catholic Church in this country and may urge him to rectify the situation as a matter of extreme urgency.David Kittonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-44902019557977719132010-08-19T08:33:10.904+01:002010-08-19T08:33:10.904+01:00Lord, save us from "Shine, Jesus, Shine"...Lord, save us from "Shine, Jesus, Shine".<br /><br />I had to put up with it in various protestant churches (including one where the pastor's son was Graham Kendrick's gardener!) and found, with despair, that I couldn't escape it as a Catholic.<br /><br />I couldn't even escape it in a Welsh theological college because one student there was the person who translated it into Welsh and added some nationalism to the words.<br /><br />Anyone would think that the Catholic Church didn't have a rich heritage of music to draw from.Asteroidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750602226223307782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-78275164436960727312010-08-19T07:55:52.649+01:002010-08-19T07:55:52.649+01:00No-one is sneering at fellow Christians at prayer....No-one is sneering at fellow Christians at prayer. No, really. Obviously, I can only speak for myself but my opprobrium is reserved for the organisers of the Hyde Park event who seem to believe that this kind of stuff is the fulcrum of the ingathering for the youth of the Church. <br />I bet nobody asked them and I'd be very interested to know how many under-30s were involved in devising this saccharin menu.<br />My experience in parishes which doggedly use these tunes is that the lips of young people in the pews remain firmly closed. The horrible suspicion is that it is the hierarchy of a certain age who are the fans and are helping to stick it in the face of a Pope who has made clear his dislike of it. That's not very hospitable to say the least.<br />However, I am cheered by reading on the Mulier Fortis blog that there's a short evening vigil planned at the Wimbledon Nunciature where the Pope will stay. There will be no liturgical entertainment. I hope very much to be able to attend.georgemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-81377341878225214022010-08-19T07:46:26.231+01:002010-08-19T07:46:26.231+01:00It is not just a matter of personal preference, it...It is not just a matter of personal preference, it is matter of what is part of our Tradition.<br />The Roman Missal, recently the CDW have issue clear directives about "Catholic" music, some of this stuff seems a deliberate two fingered gesture to all that.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-23378659420264361822010-08-19T07:30:41.070+01:002010-08-19T07:30:41.070+01:00The enjoyment or dislike of music is so subjective...The enjoyment or dislike of music is so subjective that naturally people will have strong opinions about it. I do not believe it is sneering. As a Catholic and as a a musician, am l not entitled to a heart sinking feeling at the selection of 'Shine Jesus Shine.'another vat bratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63857708190127466242010-08-18T22:49:38.837+01:002010-08-18T22:49:38.837+01:00'A pity to see so much sneering. You'd thi...'A pity to see so much sneering. You'd think we were discussing opposition politicians, rather than fellow Christians at prayer.'<br /><br />I agree, not so much on this blog, but just in general. Since joining blogger I have certainly discovered the differing camps within my Catholic faith. It makes me so sad and disheartened sometimes.<br />Like an outsider in my own Church, if it ever was my own Church, of course. Me being a Vat 2 brat.<br />I'm goin to bed, to say my rosary. They can't take that away from me.<br /><br />I might become a mooney if things get much worse.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-7504083312334969112010-08-18T22:14:23.215+01:002010-08-18T22:14:23.215+01:00It could have been worse - the Hokey Kokey could h...It could have been worse - the Hokey Kokey could have been included; even allowing for its supposed Catholic connection.Jekyll and Hydenoreply@blogger.com