tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post8343337744082013510..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Francis InterviewFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-70478488949352446812013-09-21T01:25:24.948+01:002013-09-21T01:25:24.948+01:00Fred,
No, I see Paul VI's imposing of a new li...Fred,<br />No, I see Paul VI's imposing of a new liturgy without consultation on the Church as the supreme act Ultramonatanism. It was not what was asked for by the Council but what was given by the Pope. He treated the Church as his personal fiefdom, to abolish and introduce what he chose.<br /><br />Vat I merely canonises what was the Tradition, the post Vat II aftermath took it to an extreme.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-54339351835465120082013-09-21T01:01:43.141+01:002013-09-21T01:01:43.141+01:00Father,
One point:
"especially in a Church ...Father,<br /><br />One point:<br /><br />"especially in a Church that still has not learnt the principle of subsidiarity and is still sees the Petrine office in Ultramontane terms"<br /><br />This reminded me of Dom Butler's book on Vatican I, from his experience of that council. He said, ‘What was Athanasiusim is now stamped as Ultramontanism. He was right. It is not a question of how we see it, the Church, post Vatican I, is Ultramontanistic- irreversibly. From canon law to Lumen Gentium the power of the pope is 'immediate, universal, and without recourse to appeal'. The very definition of Ultramontanism? Whether or not the reigning pope decides to use these powers is a question of personal style, but be in no doubt we are members of the one true Church and it is Ultramontanistic. This is a dogmatic reality.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14133427380374795013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-87056849722413283712013-09-20T22:04:54.707+01:002013-09-20T22:04:54.707+01:00@ Archer
I´m a convert, too. I feel the same.
&qu...@ Archer<br />I´m a convert, too. I feel the same.<br /><br />"... but lets be honest, it's those on the left that aren't really having to put much effort into understanding him. Just take a look at their blogs."<br />I completely agree.<br /><br />I just learned that:<br />"...on his lengthy interview with the Jesuit magazine America. That magazine, by the way, has for over 30 years been the intellectual flagship of the leftist dissident movement within the Catholic Church, especially on issues related to Church teachings on sexual morality."<br />http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/pope-francis-certainly-has-a-way-of-stirring-things-upMartina Katholikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07891671172843888683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-82422331611622248312013-09-20T19:20:32.849+01:002013-09-20T19:20:32.849+01:00ALEXANDER VI said...
"Father, do you ever do...ALEXANDER VI said...<br /><br />"Father, do you ever do anything other than moan?"<br /><br />Yes, he sacrifices!<br /><br />SACRIFICE <br />OF<br />STEEL<br /><br />Dark cold and gray<br />Under a wave of cement<br />Wander steel rails<br />Puffs of smoke<br />Spray up <br />From steel-gray whales <br />He enters <br />Willingly - <br />The steel groans and away sails<br />To the <br />Cross-road<br />Shores<br />Of <br />Sacrifice and steel nails.Long-Skirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791967605782446951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63895119146378564352013-09-20T18:36:01.834+01:002013-09-20T18:36:01.834+01:00I think he is doing a very good job of confusing t...I think he is doing a very good job of confusing the secular media.<br /><br />I think he is trying to say never mind the state of the engine, the boat is sinking, stop that first, you can worry about the engine later, let alone the deckchairs which it has to be said are all that seem to matter to some traditionalists and liberals (eg the sorts who attend a tridentine Mass and won't go to communion if it is provided from the tabernacle in case it was consecrated at a Novus Ordo Mass and the types who start kicking up a fuss as if Father having one Tridentine Mass a week is the end of civilization as we know it)<br /><br />Gungariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06148025539041279321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-69174057067844685352013-09-20T17:59:11.902+01:002013-09-20T17:59:11.902+01:00Excellent, thank you. The Pope is a good man, but ...Excellent, thank you. The Pope is a good man, but not the type of scholar we have had in the last two popes. He is also a product of later seminary training and admitted in his interview, which I read carefully, that when he was there the abuses of Thomism were rife.<br /><br />We now have a pope of our time, one who attended seminary when some of the problems of the Rhine flowing into the Tiber were occurring around the world. He is not a liberation theologian, but he is also not a phenomenologist, nor an Augustinian, not a Thomist. This is a transition for all of us who read and followed previous popes. He is a Jesuit and as such, has a very different approach to how to relate ideas, doctrines, dogmas.<br /><br />Sadly, as you know dear Father Ray, the media is in the hands of the Evil One, and has been for a long time. So any vague or unclear or different statement is going to be spun to make the Church look weak, changing, vague.<br /><br />Prayer is indeed needed. He will not destroy the Faith, as James above is concerned about, but think on this point. Pope Francis almost got elected last time when Benedict was-Francis was second in popularity. God put Benedict in the Chair of Peter and God has put Francis in the Chair of Peter. If the Church is going into, as I have believed for a very long time, a period of persecution, maybe God wants Francis at the helm not only for the purification of the Church, but for Francis' own good. We forget that the Pope is called by God for the salvation of that pope's soul, as well as for the Church.<br /><br />We did not pray enough for Blessed John Paul II or Benedict. We must pray for Francis.<br /><br />Supertradmumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829935047036023159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-2112173619342567472013-09-20T17:32:38.613+01:002013-09-20T17:32:38.613+01:00Fr. Ray, have you any thoughts on the Pope's c...Fr. Ray, have you any thoughts on the Pope's criticisms of those "restorationists" who want an "exaggerated doctrinal "security""?<br /><br />Deacon Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549825303646357455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-14645248542474044522013-09-20T16:52:59.029+01:002013-09-20T16:52:59.029+01:00What I see in the pope's comments is a revisit...What I see in the pope's comments is a revisiting of the Jesuit vs. so called Jansenist and Port Royalist controversy in the early 18th century. It seems to me that the issues are mercy, compassion, and forgiveness alongside the admonishment of sinners. I do believe that the Pope is really brindging an old church controversy. His style? That is open to great debate. His theology is clearly on target.Archimandrite Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894842027467584759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-73962182430198676852013-09-20T16:44:46.089+01:002013-09-20T16:44:46.089+01:00Can one view Pope Francis' interview as an app...Can one view Pope Francis' interview as an appeal to the Church to undertake a "primary proclamation" of the Gospel in the terms understood by Pope Paul VI in <i>Evangelii Nuntiandi</i> and by the <i>Directory for Catechesis</i>? If you read the interview in the light of the teaching on different stages in the process of evangelisation, then you are not going to understand Pope Francis' observations about abortion etc as derogation from that teaching but rather as simply placing them within the programme of introduction to the life of faith of those who previously did not believe. This, too, is the meaning of his references to pastors who "warm the hearts".Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339499088443959192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-73988079565569666072013-09-20T15:53:56.320+01:002013-09-20T15:53:56.320+01:00Yesterday evening I spent four or so hours drinkin...Yesterday evening I spent four or so hours drinking with friends who'd been reading up online what the Pope had said. Since I became a Catholic some years ago, my new faith has become a topic of many a conversation, especially since it is suposed to be so fundamentally at odds with my being gay. (I'm celibate by the way). Whatever Francis' intention, my friends were convinced that I was now out of step with the direction Francis is taking the Church. My friends had a Catholic that they could talk to about Francis' interview, but how many people out there do not have that opportunity. Yes...the MSM might tweek his message, but Francis seems, like you said in your article, to be Pope at war with the Church. I am an orthodox and engaged Catholic, but the pope's words give many the impression that as such I am on the outside of the developing Church. Francis is causing terrible confusion to those outside the Church and frustration and confusion to those inside the Church. Many faithful bloggers are doing fantastical contortions to frame Francis' words in an orthodox light, but lets be honest, it's those on the left that aren't really having to put much effort into understanding him. Just take a look at their blogs. I am seriously beginning to feel shakey about my faith.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17087924776347254406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-83482200373604048412013-09-20T15:33:44.304+01:002013-09-20T15:33:44.304+01:00testingtestingPelerinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242844701379703515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-45783775193483315652013-09-20T15:33:32.024+01:002013-09-20T15:33:32.024+01:00Pray for the bishop of Rome and all bishops indee...Pray for the bishop of Rome and all bishops indeed! <br /><br />I noted, following a link from the Protect the Pope website that Bishop Paul Hendricks of Southwark is a "friend" and "likes" the ACTA UK Facebook page. Very disconcerting indeed.<br /><br />There appears to be a bit of a divide in the Conference of Bishops for E&W with Conry and Hendricks visibly supporting in the south and Williams refusing support in the north.<br /><br />A house divided indeed! Dies Irae Dies Illahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08922686890307030071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-89141458361530226832013-09-20T15:25:51.639+01:002013-09-20T15:25:51.639+01:00Father, do you ever do anything other than moan?Father, do you ever do anything other than moan?ALEXANDER VIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00596556221149864809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-86094644212462817312013-09-20T15:24:07.740+01:002013-09-20T15:24:07.740+01:00Father, do you ever do anything other than moan? Father, do you ever do anything other than moan? ALEXANDER VIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00596556221149864809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-68915940238059719712013-09-20T13:47:31.673+01:002013-09-20T13:47:31.673+01:00I abandoned the SSPX under Pope Benedict XVI but n...I abandoned the SSPX under Pope Benedict XVI but now I wonder if I made the right decision - could they be right? Pope Francis I believe is causing untold damage with his off-the-cuff remarks and style and worse is sowing confusion. Does he realise or even care that his words have been, are and will be misinterpreted and used to justify every error, abuse or heresy? I feel so disconcerted. The Pope seems to imply Catholic doctrine is unimportant really. Some of us try at great sacrifice to adhere to church teaching on issues such as those highlighted. Now we look rather silly. Perhaps I should give it all up. Maybe that's what this Pope wants. Is it wrong to want a Pontificate to end before it destroys ones faith?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com