tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post4777536656664438873..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Bishop McMahon & CelibacyFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13301198503804948362008-11-16T18:30:00.000+00:002008-11-16T18:30:00.000+00:00Pastorparvulus - a huge Hurrah!!!! for our courage...Pastorparvulus - a huge Hurrah!!!! for our courageous Catholic young men who have chosen to follow Jesus into the Priesthood. Our prayers are with you. <BR/><BR/>Well said - the Church does not need any more pragmatists, always ready to fudge any issue, just well formed and obedient Catholics capable of making sacrifices for Our Blessed Lord because they love Jesus with a heart that is on fire for him.<BR/><BR/>God Bless you all.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13031618301013986930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-8239992067572642072008-11-15T14:02:00.000+00:002008-11-15T14:02:00.000+00:00the bishops recently spoke in Rome and confirmed t...the bishops recently spoke in Rome and confirmed the dignity of the celibate priesthood. it is both counter-culutral and of deeply spiritual significance that a man can leave all to serve the Church as Christ's priest - as a young priest who is very happy with the choice he has had to make bacause he is called to the Ministerial priesthood, i find this discussion to be somewhat fruitless from the point of a discipline - we are not pragmatists, we are Catholics.<BR/><BR/>Oremus Pro InvicemAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10886404210436367142008-11-13T20:00:00.000+00:002008-11-13T20:00:00.000+00:00Good grief. Who'd marry a man with such ridiculous...Good grief. Who'd marry a man with such ridiculous teeth.Bernadettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13691180340362754110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-53034405801918235572008-11-10T20:47:00.000+00:002008-11-10T20:47:00.000+00:00Is it not the case that celibacy became obligatory...Is it not the case that celibacy became obligatory for secular clergy only after the Second Lateran Council in 1139? Indeed not until after the Council of Trent in the 16th century was it successfully imposed, with much resistance from the Basque country and the German clergy. When the Papal Nuncio surveyed Salzburg in 1581 he found that fewer than 10 out of 220 parish clergy in the Styrian jurisdiction did not have a concubine or claim to be married. The Archbishop set an example by having a concubine and 15 children.<BR/><BR/>The testimony of the Church throughout the ages would appear to be somewhat mixed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-55301608947033295762008-11-10T18:51:00.000+00:002008-11-10T18:51:00.000+00:00Wasn't so long ago that people on here and other s...Wasn't so long ago that people on here and other sites were lauding this man after celebrating the Tridentine Mass at a training week for priests. Some ever went as far as tipping him for Westminster. How the wind has changed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-44591493606072255262008-11-10T16:14:00.000+00:002008-11-10T16:14:00.000+00:00Thank you for setting out the arguments intelligen...Thank you for setting out the arguments intelligently and concisely. This is a big issue in my former parish - and I have been called a reactionary bigot for daring to refuse to sign a petition on the matter. I can't remember the exact quote but it goes something along the lines of "what starts as permitted goes on to be expected, and then to become obligatory". My respect for those who sacrifice their personal lives for their vocation is absolute, and reminds me, when tempted to criticise any of their human weaknesses, that they were strong enough to do something I could not.Dillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01205740584849200357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-46429705852690351242008-11-10T15:50:00.000+00:002008-11-10T15:50:00.000+00:00Jackie - I'm with you on this one!Volpius leonius ...Jackie - I'm with you on this one!<BR/>Volpius leonius and JARay - typically on the ball with this one, agreed in full!Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13031618301013986930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-88489349549307210372008-11-10T14:16:00.000+00:002008-11-10T14:16:00.000+00:00The second Vatican council quite clearly says that...The second Vatican council quite clearly says that celibacy is a discipline rather than something which flows froms the essence of the priesthood. Of course over the centuries many spiritual, as well as practical, benefits have identified with the celibate state. At the same time a theology of celibacy has also developed but this is surely a secondary aspect. We cannot get away from the fact that there are validly ordained married clergy. So celibacy is a gift but not an essential component of priesthood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-61197510299260825142008-11-10T06:22:00.000+00:002008-11-10T06:22:00.000+00:00Can't he please just shut his mouth! Sorry Fr but....Can't he please just shut his mouth! Sorry Fr but....Jackie Parkes MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986690514568554656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-23819083882916773412008-11-09T23:22:00.000+00:002008-11-09T23:22:00.000+00:00Mark it is the former, but it does not follow that...Mark it is the former, but it does not follow that it is merely a disciplinary matter.<BR/>In many parts of the East the theological formation of married clergy, permission to preach etc is of recent origin.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-44619231831334870662008-11-09T23:03:00.001+00:002008-11-09T23:03:00.001+00:00Don't forget to sign the promise to Live Chastely!...Don't forget to sign the promise to <A HREF="http://promise.livesimply.org.uk/LiveChastely" REL="nofollow">Live Chastely!</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-58718135451524122502008-11-09T23:03:00.000+00:002008-11-09T23:03:00.000+00:00Regardless of our own thoughts on the relationship...Regardless of our own thoughts on the relationship between and celibacy/marriage, the official teaching of the Church is found in Vatican II's decree "Presbyterorum Ordinis" paragraph 16. As Catholics, it should be our position.<BR/><BR/>"Celibacy is to be embraced and esteemed as a gift. Perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven, commended by Christ the Lord and through the course of time as well as in our own days freely accepted and observed in a praiseworthy manner by many of the faithful, is held by the Church to be of great value in a special manner for the priestly life. It is at the same time a sign and a stimulus for pastoral charity and a special source of spiritual fecundity in the world. <BR/><BR/>Indeed, it is not demanded by the very nature of the priesthood, as is apparent from the practice of the early Church and from the traditions of the Eastern Churches, where, besides those who with all the bishops, by a gift of grace, choose to observe celibacy, there are also married priests of highest merit. This holy synod, while it commends ecclesiastical celibacy, in no way intends to alter that different discipline which legitimately flourishes in the Eastern Churches. It permanently exhorts all those who have received the priesthood and marriage to persevere in their holy vocation so that they may fully and generously continue to expend themselves for the sake of the flock commended to them."<BR/><BR/>Note that the final sentence is directed at the married clergy of Eastern Rite Catholics as the influx of Anglican clergy had not, at that time, taken place.albanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16702445320452019277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13540196196957208842008-11-09T22:25:00.000+00:002008-11-09T22:25:00.000+00:00Are Eastern Rite Catholic priests required to be c...Are Eastern Rite Catholic priests required to be celibate, or do they have the same discipline as the Orthodox? If it's the former, then presumably the rationale behind celibacy in the West really is disciplinary (and customary) rather than theological. Not that that's a reason for changing what is, after all, an ancient and venerable custom.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285355080459130149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-32114203973916024292008-11-09T21:50:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:50:00.000+00:00I think that I agree with volpius leonius. The tra...I think that I agree with volpius leonius. The tradition of the Church is well founded.<BR/><BR/>JARayJARayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138004129894177863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-22927766727209334762008-11-09T21:44:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:44:00.000+00:00What these patristic references show is that those...What these patristic references show is that those who were married embraced a life of celibacy on ordination.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-40434932941419383662008-11-09T21:41:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:41:00.000+00:00Thank you for your definition Father Blake althoug...Thank you for your definition Father Blake although I am a little puzzled how a married person can be classed as celibate even if he or she abstains from sexual activity. The etymology is quite clear. The populat press uses celibacy as a synonym for chastity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-60917092241643066482008-11-09T21:23:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:23:00.000+00:00Etymology: Latin caelibatus, from caelib-, caelebs...Etymology: Latin caelibatus, from caelib-, caelebs unmarried.<BR/><BR/>Celibacy in the Church is the deliberate of abstaining from marriage,and therefore sex or for those who are married, abstaining sexual activity.<BR/>All are called to chastity, according to their condition, some are called celibacyFr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-82204158416901096442008-11-09T21:21:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:21:00.000+00:00This nonsense is getting very trying. I don't thi...This nonsense is getting very trying. I don't think our Bishops have enough work to do.Volpius Leoniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10273209983337706262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-73405073350141011602008-11-09T21:05:00.000+00:002008-11-09T21:05:00.000+00:00Does not celibate mean unmarried for religious rea...Does not celibate mean unmarried for religious reasons? Chastity is expected as a matter of course. Celibacy is not a synonym for chastity. A non-celibate ministry merely means an married one ,not one committed to unchastity. One hopes that a celibate one is always chaste.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com