tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post6052278939509228845..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: He who is able to kneel before the EucharistFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-74936857181177589102011-09-14T11:58:11.387+01:002011-09-14T11:58:11.387+01:00Tha Japanese know a thing or two about bowing,to s...Tha Japanese know a thing or two about bowing,to show the most respect it should be about 45 degrees.The least that has to be done is a nod of the head.<br /><br />Haven't got the foggiest idea why the Altar Rails were done away with,probably a simple edict that we are not meant to kneel.Bowing before receiving the Host by mouth can be a little difficult if the tray is there.nickbrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18412418782531527758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-4050496121875734702011-09-14T01:31:21.357+01:002011-09-14T01:31:21.357+01:00I'm slightly alarmed that no-one has mentioned...I'm slightly alarmed that no-one has mentioned that kneeling on Sundays is specifically forbidden by Canon XX of the First Council of Nicaea! This is a rather important fact when it comes to what might be seen as an overenthusiasm for the practice.<br /><br />We might also consider the words of St Jerome:<br /><br />''There are many other observances in the Church which, though due to Tradition, have acquired the authority of the written Law, as, for instance, the practice of not praying on bended knees on Sunday.'' (St Jerome, 330).<br /><br />Yes, kneeling is our practice in the West. But please let's not get triumphal on such weak grounds..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04611694996611765479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-59878772937483235112011-09-13T21:57:43.171+01:002011-09-13T21:57:43.171+01:00Bring back altar rails and blame Elf 'n Safety...Bring back altar rails and blame Elf 'n Safety if anyone objects. Or accessibility regulations.Physiocrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13682019625346594568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-55883535688005363382011-09-13T20:30:02.853+01:002011-09-13T20:30:02.853+01:00I think it's time to bring back the altar rail...I think it's time to bring back the altar rails!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09221322305605238111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-16373328307728114522011-09-13T16:46:16.570+01:002011-09-13T16:46:16.570+01:00Like Fr. Ray, I have sometimes questioned the effe...Like Fr. Ray, I have sometimes questioned the effectiveness of mere preaching from the pulpit as a catechetical tool – at least for 90% of the congregation. I did a whole series of homilies once on the need for reverence and attention when receiving Holy Communion, even coupled with live demonstration of how to receive in the hand, as this was where problems were occurring. At the very same Mass, the people I was particularly trying to reach received in exactly the same careless fashion. It’s striking how the influence of just a few people can start a trend, for good or ill. In one parish, I introduced lining up along the sanctuary step for Communion, with me moving along the line with server & communion plate – my ultimate aim was to install altar rails. I reasoned, like Fr. Ray, that actions on the part of the people would have more impact than lots of words from me. It did indeed increase the sense of recollection, because people had a few moments of stillness to focus their thoughts and prepare to receive the Lord. Moreover, people who were a bit unsteady on their feet and mums and dads managing children also appreciated this practice’s unhurried nature. Sadly I was moved before I could install the rails. Where I am now – a university chaplaincy, most of the students are from Africa or Asia, where it seems it is still common to kneel at the altar rails to receive Communion on the tongue; they are a little surprised that we don’t! If, in my absence, they attend a local church, I discover a few copying the bad habits of the locals receiving in the hand very carelessly. On the other hand, their faith is strengthened when they see a 95 year old Ukrainian lady at daily Mass going down on both knees and touching her head to the floor during Exposition. Yes, these simple gestures are powerful and a real instruction takes place from body to soul, for good or ill again. There is a great urgency to get right how we receive the Lord in Holy Communion.Fr. Stephen Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-25109394783681916102011-09-13T13:29:35.947+01:002011-09-13T13:29:35.947+01:00Father,
my pp never mentioned bowing or kneeling-i...Father,<br />my pp never mentioned bowing or kneeling-i read it of the bishops conference website-i think its a good idea and have done it since the introduction of the new translation(which i like very much),but before this 2 other people have always given very low bows at Holy Communion and another lady kneels down,even though thers no kneelers,personally i would like them brought back!!!rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63013349973374483202011-09-13T11:38:57.259+01:002011-09-13T11:38:57.259+01:00Fr. Dominic O'Connor re-instituted the altar r...Fr. Dominic O'Connor re-instituted the altar rail and kneeling at Brigg in Lincolnshire about a year ago. It did cause a bit of a kerfuffle (so to speak) for about two weeks but after it was obvious he was not going to budge the congregation soon came round to the idea. <br /><br />The excellent James Gillick (he who painted the well known portrait of JPII) is in charge of music, even introducing correctly sung liturgy, and between them they have turned the church in to a place of reverence and spirituality during Mass time. You could almost believe you were at a Mass in Italy.<br /><br />Kneeling for communion just gives you that period of reflection just before receiving the blessed sacrament. I am absolutely sure that Fr. Dominic was pleased that he went through his battle and it is definitely reaping rewards.ORA PRO NOBIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17546605493757534530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-30246243611418051512011-09-13T11:37:47.669+01:002011-09-13T11:37:47.669+01:00The genuflection derives from Byzantine court ritu...The genuflection derives from Byzantine court ritual. No one is quite sure what the first Christians did since kneeling is only adopted by Jews on Yom Kippur, and Eastern Rite Catholics don't kneel to receive Holy Communion. Personally, I don't mind whether we genuflect or make a deep bow, but I do think whatever we do should be done with mindfulness and great reverence. But then, you'd expect a Benedictine to say that, wouldn't you?D. Catherine Wybournehttp://www.ibenedictines.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10273205836005431932011-09-13T10:04:23.354+01:002011-09-13T10:04:23.354+01:00I kneel all the time now. It started as a formula ...I kneel all the time now. It started as a formula :<br /><br /> "If He truly is who the Church claims Him to be and I am about to receive Him then surely I should kneel" <br /><br />I used to feel self-conscious and embarrassed about being the only person doing so but the more I've grown in love with Him the more shameful it is to me that I ever felt self-conscious and embarrassed. <br /><br />He suffered terribly for me. He was scourged, abused, nailed to the cross like a lump of meat and died for me. He would allow nothing to separate himself from me not even death itself. Now he comes to be with me and to feed me with His very self and here I am embarrassed and self-conscious to kneel? How mean and little my love is. O my sweet Jesus forgive me.Ma Tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-63071727613221583932011-09-13T08:43:27.039+01:002011-09-13T08:43:27.039+01:00Kieran & ST Michael
The "Big Lad" i...Kieran & ST Michael<br /><br />The "Big Lad" is an East end of Glasgow expression for God, used by my very good Presbyterian friend from there, who certainly respects God. It denotes His omnipotence and His one-of-us-ness, but leader of the gang, in just the right way for an East end glaswegian, to show his respects and acknowledgment of those two aspects of the deity.<br />If you were to suggest it was blasphemous to a group of hard core men in the East end, they'd probably give you the 'heavy deadener' or 'deednur' as it's pronounced (I know you'll want me to keep it linguistically articulate)! Anyway,that's what my friend told me to tell all you, just now, on the phone, when I rang him to tell him of it being a cause for your anthropomorphic insanity. A word which he, personally found a little over necessary for you yourselves to use, although those weren't quite the words he used!!!!!!<br /><br />What about what I said re kneeling and receiving and meatless Fridays, you fogot to mention what you thought of that!mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-81972175026345934482011-09-13T03:44:32.671+01:002011-09-13T03:44:32.671+01:00I think bowing represents our humility and wilingn...I think bowing represents our humility and wilingness to act in service of the Lord. It's a good practice to make us remember that we should try to humble ourselves to an almighty being.Lady.Rosaryhttp://www.discountcatholicproducts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-39496495577293773662011-09-13T01:14:02.187+01:002011-09-13T01:14:02.187+01:00"Most people simply don't bow"
Inte..."Most people simply don't bow"<br /><br />Interesting that your impression as a priest matches mine from the pews - that hardly anyone actually obeys the rubric to bow.<br /><br />Indeed my impression was that more people genuflect than bow (although both groups are tiny - perhaps one in a thousand).Richardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-34481815674387281752011-09-13T01:13:07.838+01:002011-09-13T01:13:07.838+01:00Robert, the Orthodox custom is not to kneel to rec...Robert, the Orthodox custom is not to kneel to receive Holy Communion, but at several points during the Divine Liturgy they make full metanias (both knees, both hands and forehead on the floor). The only time this most profound gesture of adoration is not done is during Pascha and its afterfeast, and on Sundays (which are themselves mini-Paschas).<br /><br />Myself, I have great difficulty in kneeling due to arthritis. Getting down is fine. Getting up requires considerable effort and is usually accompanied by bone-crunching pain. Since age took away my ability to genuflect, I have adopted the full, solemn bow of almost 90 degrees from the waist, as customarily practised by Benedictines.<br /><br />(Random observation: I was told by my father that in the Good Old Days one never bowed to the Sovereign. One bowed to the empty throne. To the Sovereign, one genuflected.)Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-50919360246950823432011-09-13T00:28:23.844+01:002011-09-13T00:28:23.844+01:00To stoop before a person was, and is, a sign of su...To stoop before a person was, and is, a sign of submission and humility.<br /><br />Douay-Rheims Bible<br /><br />"And he preached, saying: There cometh after me one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and loose". <br />Mark 1:7Annenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-58666193373368564852011-09-13T00:00:28.830+01:002011-09-13T00:00:28.830+01:00Father, I share your reservations about bowing. I...Father, I share your reservations about bowing. I do it simply because I need an altar rail, or prie dieu, neither available at our Novus Ordo Mass, but I have asked my parish priest to provide one, and that is something which all like minded people should do. <br /><br />Similarly, I only receive by mouth and from a priest since my hands are not blessed or anointed to handle the Sacred Species so I will have nothing to do with emHCs, nor self administration, which receiving by hand is.<br /><br />Example is important and like Catholic MC, I have noticed a gradual increase in reverence recently.<br /><br />It will all take time!Jacobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52656147496715444102011-09-12T23:20:21.163+01:002011-09-12T23:20:21.163+01:00The problem with kneeling is that there needs to b...The problem with kneeling is that there needs to be a clean surface to kneel on! Preferably a soft one.<br /><br />It is also useful if people have some kind of support such as an altar rail.<br /><br />If these are provided there is a reasonable chance that people will take the hint.<br /><br />If not, people are going to be reluctant, especially if they are wearing clean clothes.Physiocrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13682019625346594568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-79004749594415974402011-09-12T22:49:44.914+01:002011-09-12T22:49:44.914+01:00Mr. Robert,
Even the lowly donkey knelt before th...Mr. Robert,<br /><br />Even the lowly donkey knelt before the crib of the baby Jesus in the manger.<br /><br />I don't care if anyone else does not kneel; that does not make it right.<br /><br />At His name, every knee should bend. <br /><br />No exceptions.<br /><br />*Pablo the Mexicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09384415590309803327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-88548853842143372082011-09-12T22:22:21.750+01:002011-09-12T22:22:21.750+01:00Saint Michael Come to Our Defence.
And Eastern Ca...Saint Michael Come to Our Defence.<br /><br />And Eastern Catholic/Orthodox Christians don't kneel during communion either. It's not part of their tradition. Never has been!. So you "Lucifer not kneeling" analogy is irrelevant, in this case.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01725445787551443589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-33540999137499275322011-09-12T22:17:24.821+01:002011-09-12T22:17:24.821+01:00Quote: "Lucifer would not kneel before Christ...Quote: "Lucifer would not kneel before Christ and became Satan the Devil, and was cast out of Heaven."<br /><br />And Archbishop Conti of Glasgow won't allow people to kneel either. Go figure!.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01725445787551443589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-77181005538072048332011-09-12T22:08:09.541+01:002011-09-12T22:08:09.541+01:00Mr. Patruus,
I really enjoyed the Mass video.
I ...Mr. Patruus,<br /><br />I really enjoyed the Mass video.<br /><br />I am sorry I do not comprendo French.<br /><br />The Padre seems to be giving an excellent sermon.<br /><br />The second video advocates the three major religions as being equals.<br /><br />I do not recommend that video.<br /><br />Thank you for the good French Mass video.<br /><br />I found it very edifying.<br /><br />*Pablo the Mexicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09384415590309803327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-42737688992324372622011-09-12T22:04:16.185+01:002011-09-12T22:04:16.185+01:00I find the bowing very difficult. Thus far I'v...I find the bowing very difficult. Thus far I've tried a nod, but when filing forward, there seems no time before the person before me moving on and the priest presenting the host and saying 'Body of Christ'. <br /><br />I'm not even sure what the sequence is. Should we bow before it's presented, or after it is and before we say 'amen', or what?The Thirsty Gargoylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-9585488193168679302011-09-12T22:00:01.330+01:002011-09-12T22:00:01.330+01:00"...it is blasphemous!..."
I agree with..."...it is blasphemous!..."<br /><br />I agree with Kieran. <br /><br />Con Tata Dios , nadie juega.<br /><br />With Tata God, no one plays.<br /><br />Something I learned from the little old Abuelitas as a child.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boE6eTdeGq8&feature=related<br /><br />“Put my white dress on me<br />The one I wore when we were married;<br /><br />The doctor has far to walk<br />Because our ranch is so far away<br /><br />Don't waste your time on remedies<br />My strength is already leaving me,<br /><br />Put my white dress on me<br />Father God is calling me”<br /><br />Everything remains still<br />Only Juan is telling her:<br /><br />“See how pretty the cornstalks<br />growing on the hillside?”<br /><br />“But now I don't want anything<br />I'm going to give away the seed;<br /><br />Father God wants it this way<br /><br />And with Father nobody plays<br /><br />Father God... is calling me”<br /><br />This is a song about a woman dying on the Ranch she and her husband worked for the many years of her marriage.<br /><br />As her husband Juan tries to comfort her, she tells him to give all her belongings to the poor; she only wants to be dressed in her wedding gown that she presented herself in when they wed at the altar.<br /><br />She now wants to wear it as she presents her soul before our Divine Master upon her death.<br /><br />I love our traditions in the Mexican Catholic Church.<br /><br />They are very beautiful.<br /><br />I hope you agree.<br /><br />Viva Cristo Rey!<br /><br />*Pablo the Mexicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09384415590309803327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-72625871391495060732011-09-12T21:35:23.572+01:002011-09-12T21:35:23.572+01:00There is an abundance of bowing and genuflection t...There is an abundance of bowing and genuflection to be seen in the famous Saint-Nicolas du Chardonnet video [1].<br /><br />As to whether the early Christians did genuflection, I don't know either, though there is reason to suppose that they might have practised prostration [2].<br /><br />[1] http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365<br /><br />[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFeldPG3YPatruushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05792337561584462641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-14114785111434082162011-09-12T20:36:48.116+01:002011-09-12T20:36:48.116+01:00"Big Lad upstairs", do you mean God?
If ..."Big Lad upstairs", do you mean God?<br />If you do, why not say so? <br />That type of anthropomorphism drives me mad, it is blasphemous!Kierannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-49147271428333754742011-09-12T20:23:19.920+01:002011-09-12T20:23:19.920+01:00Dear Father Ray,
"Actions are perhaps our be...Dear Father Ray,<br /><br />"Actions are perhaps our best form of catechesis: speaking is less good than showing, showing much less good than doing"<br /><br />I think this is very true - at our south coast parish church, there is a perceptible shift towards much greater reverence at the reception of Holy Communion. It is as if once a few people start genuflecting and receiving on the tongue, more people start copying and so the practice is spreading. <br /><br />Thanks for yet another thoughtful and thought provoking post, Father.Catholic MCnoreply@blogger.com