tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post6693636615103686666..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Wobbly Church: what does it mean to be Catholic today?Fr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-80978485250739936132014-10-14T10:54:30.229+01:002014-10-14T10:54:30.229+01:00Sean W: sorry, I think that I was being overly opt...Sean W: sorry, I think that I was being overly optimistic. When I said "ordinary Catholics" I refer to the bulk of what we could call Conservative Catholics - those who go along with whatever comes from Rome, without any criticism (as opposed to Traditional Catholics who are anxious about official teaching since Vatican II) It's the Conservatives who received everything with delight from John Paul - altar girls -Assisi meetings - they seem to be the anxious ones now,for a change. A very worried Opus Dei numerary told someone I know to pray hard for the Synod that it "doesn't change anything". You are right, the vast bulk of ordinary Catholics are eager and expect change because "With this new Pope,he is capable of changing everything" and The Hills will be alive with the Sound of Music.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783047061209462978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-43674295463951196452014-10-13T23:55:01.107+01:002014-10-13T23:55:01.107+01:00Sorry DM, I found your comment deeply offensive an...Sorry DM, I found your comment deeply offensive and one of the ones you are trying to publish now is equally offensive.<br />Nothing more of yours will be published here.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-65551254032475751382014-10-13T21:06:56.197+01:002014-10-13T21:06:56.197+01:00God help us...
God help us...<br /><br />Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-9090282954455110032014-10-13T20:59:37.977+01:002014-10-13T20:59:37.977+01:00Let all Catholics follow the teaching of Christ.
...Let all Catholics follow the teaching of Christ. <br />Gentyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569143943867323153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-43434655419995819622014-10-13T20:42:54.875+01:002014-10-13T20:42:54.875+01:00'In a social milieu that encourages the expres...'In a social milieu that encourages the expression of a variety of opinions on every question that arises, it is important to recognize dissent for what it is, and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a balanced and wide-ranging debate.'<br /><br />Let all real Catholics follow the teaching of Christ's Vicar on Earth, Francis.PCShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06470321777768860575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-5846007265374073802014-10-13T18:29:58.825+01:002014-10-13T18:29:58.825+01:00A major problem for me is that I no longer know wh...A major problem for me is that I no longer know whether I am even in communion with the Pope. He is clearly motivated by something that is altogether alien to the faith as I understand it and live it, but he speaks in so slippery a manner that I cannot even understand whether the defect is mine or his, and there seems to be no other "test" for my orthodoxy. The conservative Catholics you mentioned seem to be going the "whatever the Pope says, I believe" route, which is psychologically easy to bear, I guess. But it sure feels like it would be selling out for me to do the same.Sean W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10085184456489549231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-41305365005619428902014-10-13T13:41:42.134+01:002014-10-13T13:41:42.134+01:00A real fear and anxiety among ordinary Catholics? ...A real fear and anxiety among ordinary Catholics? That has largely not been my experience. Check out Catholic Answers Forum or somewhere else, where the bulk of posters have already aligned themselves with the theological zeitgeist. The expression of reservations are reserved to the few isolated traditionalists who are quickly blasted as extremists, nuts, uncharitable, Pharisaical, and more-Catholic-than-the-Pope.Sean W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10085184456489549231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-20417101258913299452014-10-13T12:58:38.394+01:002014-10-13T12:58:38.394+01:00Sixupman,
Yes, many priests need further formatio...Sixupman,<br /><br />Yes, many priests need further formation it seems. <br /><br />But also, perhaps similar to Fr. Ray's comment about priests not saying daily mass regularly in days gone by, from what I've heard and read, priests did not hear confessions (other than in extremis) until several years into their priesthood. There was expected to be further growth/formation after ordination until they were qualified to hear confessions. With the priest shortage today this approach wouldn't work.<br /><br />Some of the worst experiences in the confessional for me have been with newly ordained traditionalist priests.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835223918176453873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-38621134517116508422014-10-13T11:20:50.235+01:002014-10-13T11:20:50.235+01:00I thought that the adulation of the Papacy began a...I thought that the adulation of the Papacy began at Vatican I. I remember reading a long time ago that when the Pope went through Rome in his carriage (pre- Vatican I) half the people didn't notice and the other half didn't know who he was. I detect a real fear and anxiety - not just among Traditionalist Catholics but among ordinary types- about this synod and this Pope. We are fearful and full of "doom and gloom". I often wonder now why I converted to Catholicism,thus losing many friends and family members.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783047061209462978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-72755244502051328152014-10-13T00:41:51.120+01:002014-10-13T00:41:51.120+01:00I apologize for Damask Rose's comment, it was ...I apologize for Damask Rose's comment, it was so long that it its anti-Semitic nature did not appear in the comment moderation window. <br /><br />Thank you to those of you who rebuffed her comment which I have removed.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-65268859087471507832014-10-12T20:37:47.505+01:002014-10-12T20:37:47.505+01:00I don't ring up the Pope every morning to know...I don't ring up the Pope every morning to know what the Catholic faith is. I don't read the Vatican blog to catch up with every word the Holy Father utters. Yet I regard myself as an orthodox Catholic (perhaps "conservative" in some people's way of categorising these things). I fervently believe what the Church has defined and teaches in the Cathechism of the Catholic Church. I greatly value the Holy Rosary and Eucharistic devotion among other forms of prayer. I have concerns and question marks over some things that appear to be happening in Rome, but I am not afraid that the Church is about to fall apart. However, I do agree with Fr. Ray that raising of the papacy to a media personality cult is unfortunate. I have a great devotion to John Paul II, but it was something that seemed to happen, perhaps unavoidably, as a by-product of the impact of his immensely charismatic personality (although it actually began in the media with John Paul I). Actually, touching on a previous post, is we had greater clarity of liturgical and canonical disciplines, we would not be so open to following personalities and ecclesiastical fashions. I do agree that this has been a problem a local level for a long time, with parishes lurching from 'left' to 'right' or vice versa as parish priests change. Some variation of personal styles and pastoral priorities is inevitable and healthy, but the virtual schizophrenia of belief and practice that sometimes happens is unhelpful to the faith of ordinary people, to say the least. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-66263572955833723072014-10-12T19:55:03.508+01:002014-10-12T19:55:03.508+01:00Damask Rose forgot to mention the first pope. 100...Damask Rose forgot to mention the first pope. 100% Jewish--oy veh! <br /><br />Personally I think it was better back in the days of the Papal States. Popes were too busy trying to suppress democratic reforms that they didn't have time to meddle with dogma and liturgy. Once they realised temporal power was slipping away, they began to call councils to proclaim papal infallibility, declare unnecessary Marian dogmas , and finally wreak havoc with the liturgy.Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-14629033146930915232014-10-12T17:32:07.182+01:002014-10-12T17:32:07.182+01:00Damask Rose
By your standards Theodore and Marie...Damask Rose <br /><br />By your standards Theodore and Marie Alphonse Rastibonne should never have been ordained, Mother Miriam of the Lamb of God O.S.B should never have been allowed to found a convent , St Theresa Benedicta of the Cross and her sister Rose should never have been allowed to join the Carmelites etc etc. <br /><br />Please keep your anti-semitism to yourself, btw what evidence do you have that Paul VI or John Paul 2nds parents were Jewish and that that affected their papacy? Should the Church screen the familial background of clergy in order to make sure that there are no long noses or shylock's hidiing the family tree? <br /><br />Gosh and there was me thinking we were centuries over the converso's contraversy. <br />Just another mad Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10503510474554718305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-51982341433623863372014-10-12T14:13:53.250+01:002014-10-12T14:13:53.250+01:00George [11/10/14 - 18:30] is correct, encapsulated...George [11/10/14 - 18:30] is correct, encapsulated as "lion in the pulpit, lamb in the confessional". But how many of present day clergy have such qualification.<br /><br />R4's religious programme, this a.m.07:00, highlighted the problem of a completely lost generation to Catholicism. Apparent Catholic youngsters espousing the rubbish indoctrination heaped upon them over the years, reflecting the Franciscus/Kasper school of thought. Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-74531076844622792122014-10-12T13:34:25.438+01:002014-10-12T13:34:25.438+01:00This is the first time I read you blog. I found it...This is the first time I read you blog. I found it quite thought provoking. The points you raise have been a source of debate amongst my nearest and dearest. Looking forward to meeting you at Mass. Bonnie PavloAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03075160893947005847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-57977718065758019902014-10-12T09:41:18.269+01:002014-10-12T09:41:18.269+01:00I wish we heard more encouragement on these Cathol...I wish we heard more encouragement on these Catholic blogs, it seems to be constant doom and gloom whoever the Pope is! I am a convert to the faith and love it, I wish there was a lot more coverage of everything that is working in the church, there just seems a lack of faith that Christ is with us generally. While all this naval-gazing is going on most people in the UK are completely ignorant of Christ.<br /><br />I recently began studying for the diploma in the New Evangelisation at the School of the Annunciation in Devon. It was fascinating to discover all the ways other students are serving the church. Please more building up of the body of Christ and less tearing down. We want and need hope and encouragement.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780077343083442789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-56457102393669082014-10-12T07:15:45.352+01:002014-10-12T07:15:45.352+01:00I take the historical perspective. This isn't ...I take the historical perspective. This isn't the first time the Church has been wobbly and it won't be the last. And after two thousand years of one religious order trying to rip out the throats of others, the Church remains standing.<br /><br />To answer your question, yes the Church will find an answer, but not the one Orthodoxy and 'ultra-Catholics' come up. It's more complex. The Orthodox for the most part reject doctrinal development, even though all the Church Fathers accepted it. And since there is no living source of authority, no Magisterium, all doctrinal decisions not spelled out in Tradition are left to the bishop. As a consequence, many key vary dramatically from one patriarchate to patriarchate, and sometimes even within one patriarchate. And 'ultra-Catholics' think so highly of the pre-Vatican II Church that they are blind to the fact that all the Vatican II fathers were in the pre-Vatican II Church and were responsible for the Church after Vatican II.<br /><br />I think the issue returns to the relationship between doctrinal development, the Magisterium, the sensus fidelium, and the Papacy. I think that Pope Benedict's Hermenuity of Continuity is the key. Each ecumenical council or infallible statement must be read in light of each previous ecumenical council or infallible statement and cannot contradict it. But that's not enough. It needs to be made concrete. It is my dream that the next Pope will make it a requirement that all Bishops and priest swear an oath to believe everything in the new Catechism, the Catechism of Trent, Vatican II, and the Council of Trent. And further make the infallible statement that anyone who claims that the new Catechism or Vatican II contradicts or superseeds the doctrines in the Catechism of Trent or the Council of Trent should be declared anathema.Anil Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06223235205492924930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13960700517692493122014-10-12T04:02:57.954+01:002014-10-12T04:02:57.954+01:00I am not across the ins and outs of politics wheth...I am not across the ins and outs of politics whether civil or Church government.<br /><br />How did Pope Benedict's papacy fall apart?Victoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16780292617648919766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-37258421539044047492014-10-12T03:32:08.743+01:002014-10-12T03:32:08.743+01:00In the end, you must ask yourself who is in rebell...In the end, you must ask yourself who is in rebellion - those who demand change in doctrine made not by a mere man - but Christ himself concerning marriage or those who would defend it. The Church is being rent in two - without tradition she is nothing, without infallible doctrine fully upheld she is nothing, The real aggressors are the progressive that would protestantize her as if their progressivism has resulted in waves of conversions, or increased mass participation. These progressives they are catering to what to CHANGE the CHURCH - Not BE A PART of the CHURCH. It's time for those in open rebellion against infallible doctrine be declared anathemas and removed from public ministry.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents...<br />http://catholichusband.wordpress.comColin D. Corcoran, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01150134097945313975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-16499254586022922332014-10-12T00:31:42.775+01:002014-10-12T00:31:42.775+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Damask Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903564104733536123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13190231292740172382014-10-11T21:27:26.026+01:002014-10-11T21:27:26.026+01:00Oh dear - that was a depressing post to come home ...Oh dear - that was a depressing post to come home to after having been 'on a high' attending the Rosary Procession in London today. The Oratory was packed as usual and it felt so good to be Catholic. Everyone sang and prayed with their hearts. <br /><br />I overheard one man say to another who had not been in the Oratory before: 'It's just like Catholic churches used to be!' I wonder how it escaped wreckovation?Pelerinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14243859145007696053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-16564541099981797032014-10-11T20:56:23.514+01:002014-10-11T20:56:23.514+01:00Pope Francis does not behave like a Catholic. Did ...Pope Francis does not behave like a Catholic. Did he not say that God is not a Catholic. Well he is trying to confuse us.<br />Did he not tell a concubine (phone call from Argentina)that she could go to Holy Communion? <br />Is this how a Pope should behave? He just seems like a successful cleric who has landed the top job and he loves it.<br />I feel happier going back in time to the SSPX. Here there is no confusion only stability and tradition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-10325990692648041892014-10-11T20:15:33.386+01:002014-10-11T20:15:33.386+01:00But Fr. Ray, who is still standing? The Anglicans...But Fr. Ray, who is still standing? The Anglicans are on a downward spiral, and the Lutherans? Hardly a major player on the world scene. This. Too. Shall. Pass.<br />gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-74939347131624758212014-10-11T20:02:50.450+01:002014-10-11T20:02:50.450+01:00I'm always struck by the prologue to "The...I'm always struck by the prologue to "The Godfather" written specifically for the screen by Coppola from what he concedes is a coarse and banal book. During the prologue, the character Bonasera delineates his aggiornamento program to Don Corleone but further admits his project has unravelled. Hence his supplicant's status on the day the Don's daughter is to be married, believing for that reason his request will not be ignored. <br /><br />Don Corleone's response is at once firm, humble and filled with wisdom. He understands the attractions of aggiornamento, as presented by Bonasera, but also explains that the project was always going to fail. There is nothing frivolous in his assertion but more an exercise in economy and common sense. All this from a fictional gangster.Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-91651152975067272362014-10-11T18:30:53.825+01:002014-10-11T18:30:53.825+01:00Part of the remedy is to remember the words of tha...Part of the remedy is to remember the words of that great Catholic apologist, Voltaire, when he said "tend to your own garden." <br /><br />Any authority (be he the father of a home, the father of a parish, or the father of a diocese) who uses Rome to excuse his own conduct will be held accountable at his particular judgement. <br /><br />We must tend to our own gardens, taking moral responsibility for our own spheres of authority. <br /><br />No one will force his way into Salvation, by stampeding through a loophole or ambiguity found in the deliberations of some Roman synod. There is no safety in numbers. We will all be judged by how well we followed our consciences. There will be no excuse-making before the Judge. Gathering up phony annulments or building up phony arguments about God's mercy will all be swept away in an instant before the Judge. <br /><br />I will say this, however, truly good and orthodox priests always have surprised me with their pastoral applications of God's mercy. Normally these have been priests who were traditionally formed, or who traditionally formed themselves after seminary, and have been around for a while at the job. There sermons can be very serious and very strict, but their pastoral work (which few people tend to hear about) is almost entirely about mercy. Their private advice often times can be a "scandal to pious ears" -- meaning the pharisee within us all is better off not knowing about it.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835223918176453873noreply@blogger.com