tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post6704450361194729632..comments2023-12-16T16:17:43.886+00:00Comments on Fr Ray Blake's Blog: Rome Restores... A New MissalFr Ray Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-71788727829128770072012-06-08T20:57:31.339+01:002012-06-08T20:57:31.339+01:00It is true. There are a number of music directors ...It is true. There are a number of music directors in Latin rite Catholic Churches in the USA who upon introducing bits and pieces of gregorian chant, such as the communion antiphon on a regular basis, and evening using english language versions, are met with resistance. Many are asked to stop by their pastors or threatened with expulsion (as happened in the mid '60's).<br /><br />So I see no big change in regard to traditional music yet. A few churches are improving, but it is still quite a small insignificant minority at this time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-13215462459912267442012-03-14T18:38:27.050+00:002012-03-14T18:38:27.050+00:00If you habitually attend EF Masses or dignified OF...If you habitually attend EF Masses or dignified OF ones with appropriate music, it is either because you consciously seek them out and are prepared to travel, or are fortunate enough to be in the catchment area of parishes like yours, Father. To attend the average parish Mass then comes as a profound culture shock - it took days for me to recover from the last experience. Yet for the vast majority of practising Catholics, an informal community celebration with non-liturgical music in the pop style is perfectly normal, and a large number of them would resist any attempt to change this.<br /><br />They have, of course, largely accepted the corrected translation, since the people's parts haven't changed a lot; but how many parishes are ditching Dan Schutte for the missal chants or sustituting sung Propers for the hymns and worship songs to which they seem to be addicted and don't realize are not really appropriate? <br /><br />Since this 'culture' is the one that is being plugged in Catholic primary schools it's not going to change any time soon.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-49285027231924203532012-03-13T14:51:43.548+00:002012-03-13T14:51:43.548+00:00I know the BCP hasn't been in frequent use, bu...I know the BCP hasn't been in frequent use, but it remains the official liturgy from which other forms of service are -- strictly speaking -- permitted deviations. Things are different in other Anglican provinces such as the Church in Wales, where I served as a clergyman for 20 years, and where revised forms of generally more Catholic-minded but conservative 'experimental' services were incorporated in a replacement prayer book in 1984. Since then the CinW has followed the Gadarene rush to adopt the ecumenical version of the 3-year Roman lectionary, a couple of Zwinglian remodellings of the eucharistic prayer of Hippolytus (your Prayer 2) and suchlike stuff; there is probably far less use of the modern Roman rite among Welsh Anglo-Catholics than among their English counterparts.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908070025869221948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-4549289072876349332012-03-13T13:02:44.907+00:002012-03-13T13:02:44.907+00:00Matthew in the UK the BCP hasn't been widely u...Matthew in the UK the BCP hasn't been widely used, High or Anglo-Catholics have been using the Roman Missal for years.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-12456655353268487672012-03-13T10:18:54.663+00:002012-03-13T10:18:54.663+00:00The Apostle Paul admonishes us to "stand fast...The Apostle Paul admonishes us to "stand fast" and hold to tradition (2 Thess 2). Vatican II took the greater part of the church on a fantastic voyage away from God (your photo is perfect). The answer has been there all along - The traditional Latin Mass with its commensurate spirituality!Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11218974916477894298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-83351794668012008662012-03-13T10:00:55.617+00:002012-03-13T10:00:55.617+00:00' . . .but the rest, the -gesimas, the Octave ...' . . .but the rest, the -gesimas, the Octave of Pentecost are used by some Anglicans but at least here, it is not mainstream':<br /><br />Dear Father, If you were to consult your copy of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer you would find proper Collects, Epistles and Gospels for 'the Sunday called Septuagesima, or the Third Sunday before Lent' and the two other 'gesmias', as well as for the Monday and Tuesday in Whitsun Week. The (unauthorised but widely used) revision of 1928 appointed propers for the remaining weekdays of the Whitsun octave.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908070025869221948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-51057761269029594272012-03-13T09:22:01.469+00:002012-03-13T09:22:01.469+00:00The centre of my prayer life is, obviously, Our Lo...The centre of my prayer life is, obviously, Our Lord and time before the Blessed Sacrament is essential. On the occasions when I can attend Exposition, my life is lifted.<br />I mention this because whilst I sympathise with Lynda in her concern about the misuse of the extraordinary ministry of the Eucharist (including their use when enough Ordinary Ministers are available), there are places in the world when Exposition would never take place without the.Extraordinary Ministry and, even in less remote places, the opportunity to receive the Blessed Sacrament regularly would be massively circumscribed.<br />So, proper training and appropriate use: yes.<br />Until the growth in vocations to Ordinary Ministry matches the meeds of the Catholic community, I would say it would be a misguided decision to end the Extraordinary Ministry of Holy Communion.Catholic Left-wingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829264770790693322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-54361773897809515492012-03-13T07:57:51.967+00:002012-03-13T07:57:51.967+00:00Clare: The German Lutherans count their sundays af...Clare: The German Lutherans count their sundays after Trinity too - I suspect because this was the usage in pre-reformation Germany.<br />By the way, the German Lutherans still call the sundays of Lent and Eastertide after their Introits: Circumdederunt/Septuagesimae, Exsurge/Sexagesimae, Estomihi/Quinquagesimae, Invocabit, Reminiscere, Oculi, Laetare, Iudica, Palmarum; after Easter: Quasimodogeniti, Misericordias Domini, Jubilate, Cantate, Rogate, Exaudi, Trinitatis...Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-47093807196950342702012-03-13T01:52:35.459+00:002012-03-13T01:52:35.459+00:00Fr Blake, Proper cathechesis regarding every eleme...Fr Blake, Proper cathechesis regarding every element of the Mass, and most importantly, the Eucharist, is crucial; and that, I assumed in my comment. However, stopping abuses (and obviously, explaining why) is a necessary first step in renewing the liturgy. The liturgy properly conducted speaks to the intellect and the affections, as well as the spirit. Seeing the Eucharist adored, reverently administered, received, etc., teaches better than many sermons could, but sermons on the matter are nevertheless necessary (as on all Church doctrine).Lyndanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-29960546699410418612012-03-13T01:26:41.924+00:002012-03-13T01:26:41.924+00:00Clare: As has been pointed out on Fr Z's blog,...Clare: As has been pointed out on Fr Z's blog, Sundays after Trinity are not a distinctively Anglican thing. They were used in all the pre-Reformation rites/uses in Britain (Sarum, York, Bangor &c.), and the Church of England's practice simply continued this. It also seems that there were some continental Catholic uses which had Sundays after Trinity.Francisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-12937096844050720942012-03-12T23:28:37.188+00:002012-03-12T23:28:37.188+00:00I am old enough to remember that in the Catholic C...I am old enough to remember that in the Catholic Church we counted Sundays after Pentecost, not Trinity, which was/is the Anglican usage.<br />ClareClarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52537055474004743812012-03-12T19:47:31.735+00:002012-03-12T19:47:31.735+00:00The Portuguese for fiftieth is quinquagesim0 and s...The Portuguese for fiftieth is quinquagesim0 and so on. I am always looking for an opportunity to use it!Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-89742996589885326342012-03-12T19:17:56.889+00:002012-03-12T19:17:56.889+00:00Another interesting detail in the Calendar is that...Another interesting detail in the Calendar is that the Fifth Sunday in Lent is designated as "Passion Sunday", instead of that term being a synonym for Palm Sunday. Presumably this implies the restoration of a two-week Passiontide season (or sub-season).<br /><br />Ironic, isn't it, that the "Anglican patrimony" being brought into the Catholic fold is in fact the ancient patrimony of the Catholic Church which it threw in the trash forty-plus years ago.Francisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-39610881874768041152012-03-12T17:46:15.894+00:002012-03-12T17:46:15.894+00:00Fr Michael, Then I have expressed myself badly.
Th...Fr Michael, Then I have expressed myself badly.<br />The Cardinal did not suggest that but he did say that concelebrating with the Bishop was part of out Tradition, I presume he meant the Mass of Priestly and Episcopal Ordination, but priests concelebrating amongst themselves was not something in the Tradition of the West.<br />Curious that we have almost lost our Tradition of simultaneous private Masses has been lost - that is our Western Tradition.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-52181841261450948492012-03-12T16:33:51.685+00:002012-03-12T16:33:51.685+00:00In this article it appears to say that after recen...In this article it appears to say that after recent changes it is lawful to concelebrate at Old Rite Masses. Surely this is incorrect?Michael Cliftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568515640292864739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-1793197969864334912012-03-12T14:54:18.837+00:002012-03-12T14:54:18.837+00:00Father,
This is encouraging. I hope you right abou...Father,<br />This is encouraging. I hope you right about all of this. I never thought I would see a reconciliation of the two calendars/usages/missals in my life time. Can one really hope for this? It would seem that a restoration of the "gesimas", rogation days, sundays after trinity, pentecost could be offered as an option in the new calendar could it not? I'm assuming in the Ordinariate the liturgical colours will correspond to the traditional ordo?ServusMariaeNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13963287463957393931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-21384405782916070722012-03-12T14:26:10.049+00:002012-03-12T14:26:10.049+00:00Lynda,
Rules are easy to issue, there are plenty -...Lynda,<br />Rules are easy to issue, there are plenty - the problem is getting people to realise why such things are bad, so the rejection of such things comes from the grassroots because of peoples love of the Lord.<br /><br />It is only then bishops, priests and laypeople will want to keep the rules and instinctively do what is right and understand why it is important.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-36078145179244988072012-03-12T14:24:41.622+00:002012-03-12T14:24:41.622+00:00Does the restoration of the old calendar or elemen...Does the restoration of the old calendar or elements of the old calendar for the Ordinariate foreshadow its restoration in the Church at large? I certainly hope so! So many excellent things were just discarded wholesale. Of course, new feasts should be added.Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31069882.post-53289773762748414532012-03-12T14:04:08.714+00:002012-03-12T14:04:08.714+00:00Great developments. However, the emphasis ought to...Great developments. However, the emphasis ought to be on ending the many habitualised abuses first. I think EMHCs need to be done away with at Mass as soon as possible (many are also allowed to take the Blessed Sacrament from, and return it to, the Tabernacle!) and reception of HC in the hands and standing abolished. This would assist in restoring reverence for the Body of Christ, like nothing else.Lyndanoreply@blogger.com