Friday, January 20, 2012

Reading Faithful

Do other parish priests have to put up with a faithful who read books AND church documents?
All I insist on from Clare our Director of Music and Andrew our Master of Ceremomies is that we do what we what the liturgical books tell us to do.
This is what appears on my choir's blog, entitled Should We sing the Gradual?
Switching from the Responsorial Psalm to the Gradual could be deemed controversial in many parishes. Despite the stipulation that the chant of the Graduale should be the first choice in the Novus Ordo, and the Responsorial Psalm is the second, our liturgical books give the Responsorial Psalm as the only option.


Andrew Leach said...

To answer the question, my priest does: me. And I'm a musician too -- isn't there an aphorism about liturgists and terrorists?

But I don't post anything public about our worship without clearing it with the parish priest first, and certainly not anything which might call into question the validity of what we do. One might hope for a bit of internal discussion first, I think. If you don't feel it would become a public slanging match, perhaps you could comment on the choir's blog explaining why you do what you do!

For the record, we have three readings on Sundays and sing psalm and gradual. If your musicians are unhappy with their liturgical books, they should get some containing the gradual. And then hope that you allow them to sing it.

motuproprio said...

Another curse of Vatican II - an instructed and opinionated laity.

Flambeaux said...

I know my parish priest does. :D

Francis said...

"All I insist on from my Clare our Director of Music and Andrew our Master of Ceremomies is that we do what we"

Father, with all respect, regular readers of your blog can usually guess what you meant to say but which got lost somewhere between the brain and the keyboard; but on this occasion I, for one, am stumped. Can you tell us how the sentence was supposed to end?

Fr Ray Blake said...

Francis, the sentence has been completed.

Andrew, the first sentence was ironic, I am quite happy that we eliminate the choice of the PP, the Director of Music, the MC and anyone else, and simply do what the Church asks of us by following the best practice as defined by the Church's liturgical books, which is actually easily discoverable by simply reading them!

I would hope that any one with a "ministry" in my parish is not trying to please me but thinking with the mind of the Church and calling me to do the same.

An Opinionated Layman said...

motuproprio said...
Another curse of Vatican II - an instructed and opinionated laity.

Only half right, I'm afraid. We do have an opinionated laity but as for being instructed.........?

If they were to be properly instructed then the numbers who were opinionated would be drastically reduced. About time for a bit fire and brimstone from the pulpit, I think.

John Nolan said...

The new Graduale Parvum, which should be appearing on-line shortly, sets the Gradual in the form of a Responsory (not a 'Responsorial Psalm'). Since there are Latin and English versions I assume it could be used in both forms of the Roman Rite. Some scholas in the EF psalm-tone the Gradual anyway.

What is peculiar to the NO is not just the RP (which only works if it is sung) but also the idea of a 'gospel acclamation'. The Alleluia with its jubilus on the last syllable is meant, like the Gradual, to be meditative.

Clare said...

Yes Father, It's so unfair that you make us sing those ghastly jingly-jangly Responsorial Psalms every week, with guitar refrain and option tambourine on the last verse. It's just not fair. We want to sing that nice, long, chanty Gradual that the Holy Father says is good.

Um, I rather think some of your readers might just have misinterpreted your article.

For those that think l am member of the "opinionated laity" which of course I am, we already sing the Gradual at our main sung Mass on a Sunday.

Physiocrat said...

The responsorial psalm never worked.

Rhubarb, Rhubarb, Rhubarb.

Amfortas said...

It's a shame that the new CTS People's Missal - full version now delayed until March - does not give the Gradual texts. And it doesn't provide the Latin text of the Gospel Acclamations. If only ALL would update and reprint its Latin-English Sunday Missal.

gemoftheocean said...

"Do other parish priests have to put up with faithful who read books AND church documents?"

I hope so, Father, I hope so.

Frankly a certain pastor I knew for a number of years was a consummate BS artiste. How did I know this? Partly because he always tried to lie (or was truly ignorant!) to justify his choices and his forced choices on other people. For instance it's *preferred* to do a sung psalm on Sunday, but it's also okay to read it. He tried to tell me you could only do a sung one. Countless things like this -- so the person who is paying attention can rightly expect to double check EVERYTHING a guy like that says -- including whether or not the sun will rise. And I'd seen him posture and bully other people who didn't know any better.

Knowledge is power. IF you have knowledge you can't be shoved around so easily. An honest mistake is one thing -- but when you see them making stuff up, or knowingly fib to get their way, and do it time after time -- it's fair to mistrust their judgement and if you're not sure of something they say - double check it yourself against reliable 1st source documents.

Fr Ray Blake said...

I agree entirely.

John Nolan said...

@ Amfortas

I agree. Since the missal texts were produced for the Missa Lecta and the sung texts have to be taken from the GR, the otherwise praiseworthy notion of the CTS publishers to include the Latin originals is not going to be of much use to those attending a sung Mass.

The ALL missal of the 1980s filled an important gap, until the appearance of the Solesmes Gregorian Missal in 1990. I understand that a new edition with the corrected translation is in preparation.

Pablo the Mexican said...

My Pastor doesn't have a lay people problem.

He is the boss.

The men of the Choir follow his directions, and they have no authority in the Church.

They follow the orders of the Padre.

So do the altar boys.

Our deacon will be consecrated as a Priest this summer.

The majority of the women in his parish are too busy having babies to meddle in his affairs.

I help with the collections just so he will know who I am when that day comes.


gemoftheocean said...

Pablo, all well and good if the pastor is always right. But what if he is wrong? Ah, ignorance IS bliss - unless you are not ignorant, and you have a cat amongst the pigeons. Then you might have to suffer.

It seems to me, you'd have to know enough yourself to know if the priest is not a 'cat' but a shepherd. And for that you have to be educated.

Some people have a thirst for knowledge. Some don't.

Amfortas said...

We should be thankful for an opinionated that challenges the liberal and anti-liturgical nonsense promulgated by so many priests.