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The Lord’s descent into the underworld
At Matins/the Office of Readings on Holy Saturday the Church gives us this 'ancient homily', I find it incredibly moving, it is abou...
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A French newspaper has reported Pope Francis, once Benedict dies, will abrogate Summorum Pontificum and handover Old Rite's celebrat... -
I was at the Verona Opera Festival when Summorum Pontificum was published but it wasn't until All Souls Day that I first attempted to s... -
In a conversation with our bishop recently, I thought he said that some parishes in the diocese were already using the new ICEL translations...
19 comments:
Father Ray,Thank you for publishing the video of Msgr. Newton's address.
It requires further in depth analysis. I found his difficulty in stating what "Anglican Patrimony" is very interesting, as I become more and more disillusioned with priests of the ordinariate. Yesterday I heard of an ordinariate priest who wants to drop the Roman Rite Mass in a traditional Catholic parish and introduce in its placethe "Ordinariate Mass" (his words, not mine!)
Father, I am a little shocked at your shock!
The Ordinariate is a different Usage of the Roman Rite, I do not think in the past anyone would be surprised at a Dominican or Carmelite working in a diocesan parish using their own "rite".
The Ordinariate wasn't set up by the Pope simply to be a pool of supply priests for bishops unable to staff his own parishes, on the contrary it and its priests are supposed to be distinct.
Father, the Ordinariate priest wqs appointed to a parish with existing Roman Rite Masses, and an ordinariate Mass was introduced, and that was accepted without question. Now however it is proposed to drop a Sunday OF Mass and put an Ordinariate Mass in its place....in a parish where there are only about 15 members of Ordinariate and a few hundred Romans!
People are angry... judging by phone calls I received yesterday.... as if I could do anything about the matter!
I feel sorry for the priest who appears to be losing his nway, and I also feel sorry for the people who are now likely to go elsewhere. Incidentally he seems to be more certain than Msgr. Newton on what constitutes "Anglican Patrimony"!
I should have added that I agree with what you say about the ordinariate priests being used to fill gaps! I have previously posted on that
I think I may have lost the plot somewhere,are the Ordinariate looking for more recruits? or do they want us to join them?
When the debate comes up about Women Priests in the Catholic Church,which is inevitable,will they go back again?
I speak as a priest of the Ordinariate and I am not aware that there is, at this stage, any such thing as an 'Ordinariate Mass', certainly not in England and Wales. The only rites authorised are those currently authorised for the rest of the Catholic Church.
I understood that as yet there was no "Ordinariate Mass" and that the Ord. was using the Roman liturgy in the corrected translation.I think they have published a Customary, containg offices etc.
I understood from EF Pastor was speaking about someone who - in the future - "wants to", what in reality that means will be the use of RSV lectionary which will eventually introduced into the English speaking world, a few minor calendar alterations, perhaps Anglican hymnody which most Catholics have already adopt in place of the Propers, preferential option for "ad orientem" celebration, an existing option in the Roman Missal open to all Latin Rite priests.
Is that really going to be a big issue in most parishes, would most people really notice?
Thank you for this Father. I have been waiting for it.
Lawyeratwork.com
Actually, Father Ray, I am speaking of the ANGLICAN "MASS", as used in C of E, and I am not speaking of future, but of what is actually happening now. I did point out that the "ORDINARIATE MASS" was the phrase used by an ordinariate priest not by me
Father, Thanks for this, needs some thinking about, but it is excellent food for thought.
I went to Brighton recently and popped into your church. very beautiful. Thank you.
Fr Paul
Re Fr Ray at 12.18pm
When the new lectionary was first issued it was available in both Jerusalem Bible and RSV translations. But when the 3 volume lectionary was issued some years later, it was only published in the Jerusalem Bible tanslation.
Re Nickbris at 10.13am
Roma locutus est: causa finita est.
I think what is called the "Ordinariate Mass" might be the Eucharistic Rite contained in the Customary of Our Lady of Walsingham, the proper liturgical book of the ordinaroate, to be issued on June 30th: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Customary-Our-Lady-Walsingham-Andrew-Burnham/9781848251229
I think Mgr. Newton - and the Ordinariate - may be helped significantly about what constitutes the ‘Anglican Patrimony’ by one recent diaconal ordination – Fr. John Hunwicke!
I expect the Ordinariate priests have been properly Catechised..
A solution: The Ordinariate should adopt whole and entire the Anglo-Catholic Missal, pre- WW II edition, i.e. The Tridentine Mass in English.
EF Pastor Emeritus, I am afraid that either you or your informant have/has been misinformed. I do not believe for one second that it can possibly be true that a priest of the Ordinariate has introduced the CofE's eucharistic liturgy in a Catholic parish.
There must be a rather huge misunderstanding here.
I support the Ordinariate and I do believe that they should have their own communities and not simply be stopgaps for the lack of clergy. If it is true that an Ordinariate priest intends to replace the main parish Mass with another form intended for the Ordinariate, then this is wrong and I am sure Msgr Newton will correct this.
EP is responding to what members of the congregation have said to him- we should avoid shooting the messenger.
This has cleared something up for me: a really friendly priest of the ordinariate has been covering our parish whilst the priest is recovering from surgery. The weekend masses have been as normal (excellent sermon by the way) but during the week he used a strange translation which nobody seemed to know the responses to, it must be what Henri identifies. Who cares what rite they use, it has been approved by Rome, I'm just glad we have a priest.
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