and this one
Yesterday I received an email saying:
I need to tell you that your comments have caused widespread offence to members of the Christian Gay Community, and many of the comments made by other members of your blog, allowed publicity by you, are nothing less than inflammatory and inciting of hatred about members of the gay community.It goes on and finally tells me that letters will be sent my superiors. Another couple of correspondents complained that I hadn't allowed their comments which insulted the Pope and Catholic belief and teaching and finally said they intended to have this blog closed.
It is an offence in this country to incite hatred against any group of people, and that is exactly what you are doing by allowing and promoting the kind of bigotry you are condoning. The comments are also causing grave offence to Catholics, many of whom I know are appalled by what you and fellow members of your congregation write.
It might be that I am extraordinarily naive but apart from one rather silly comment from someone suggesting a coup d'etat, I thought the comments made were reasonably balanced, I even permitted someone to advertise their book called, "The Gay Gospels".
There is something very worrying in our society when a priest cannot express his shock at a local MP saying that those who will not marry same sex couples should not be permitted to marry anyone, or when he says marriage is naturally ordered towards the procreation and education of children should be accused of "inciting hatred".
175 comments:
Don't you just love it when the liberals turn out to be anything but? Ignore them, Fr Ray. They are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
Terry
ps For some reason, I am not able to post using my google account. This has happened on a number of other blogs, too.
Words fail me. You have said NOTHING to incite hatred of those who do not share our faith. You certainly do not 'allow or promote bigotry'. Your criticisms of the MP were entirely justified - you spoke the truth. Thank you.
Why do some folk always resort to censorship?
They're free to blog away and criticse what they object to, and no attempt is made to censor them.
Always consorship Fr, that's what they always comes down to; not constructive criticism and mature debate, but the desire to silence what they don't agree with.
Pathetic.
"Dear Father Ray, you don't agree with us. That make us very angry. Therefore we'll try and get your blog closed down."
My sympathies, Father.
I am puzzled by the use of this word, "hatred" which hitherto denoted a subjective state in someone, presumably manifesting itself in objective behaviour.
Until a few years ago, the Law prohibited certain forms of behaviour, but allowed citizens freedom of thought, and also freedom of expression, within the limits required by public order and keeping the peace.
Now however, we are forbidden to question, discuss, or debate, certain subjects because discussion in itself is offensive to one party.
Why ten, are Christians not beneficiaries under this system? Certainly much that is said in public about Christ, the Church, Religion in general, is offensive, and meant to be so. Peter Tatchell and his friends' demonstration outside Westminster Cathedral just over a year ago, is an example. Professor Dawkins utterances are another. The ubiquitous use of "God" and "Christ" as expletives in vulgar conversation are deeply offensive to those who still have regard for the Commandments.... I am sure we could draw up a long list of public acts which are gratuitously offensive. But if we did so, we would be reviled and hated even more than we are by those intent on pursuing their own wishes, distorting the Law of God, the plain meaning of Scripture, the consensus of human wisdom, and the teaching of Christ as given to us consistently by His Church.
The Pope spoke in Westminster Hall a year ago about the exclusion of Religion from public life. In America, President Obama's administration now talks of "freedom of worship" rather than "freedom of religion" as being guaranteed by the constitution. That was what the Soviet Union proclaimed in its constitution and its public policy; its practice of persecution is a living memory for anyone over thirty.
I see no justice or merit in the criticisms of these "Gay Christians", and wish they would learn to make the choice between good and evil, and then try to be faithful to Christ. Or admit they are not Christians, and leave Christians in peace.
I'm sorry this has really enraged me.
This is such a gentle balanced blog, these accusations reveal more about the pathology of these people, than anything else.
It's always about their right not to be offended. That's what they think Christianity should be all about. Well, wake up folks, the cross has always caused offense.
Watch out for a certain (whisper) Mr St**ph*n F*y) who tends to arouse all his followers on twitter to attack those he objects to.
The Gay Lobby has already managed to get PayPal to withdraw its service from the website of a blogger they don't like.
Ain't tolerance soo good :)
This is what I find terrifying - trying to control the thoughts of others. Praying God works in hearts and minds to show that it is frequently those who believe themselves to be liberal and all about smashing the system and freedom from oppression who are quickest to be intolerant and oppressive. God bless you Father Ray.
I was surprised to see this post. I wonder whether it is a text that is sent to lots of bloggers - it looks a bit like it.
For what it is worth I'm a lapsed catholic and very much a liberal. I read your blog regularly and whilst I sometimes disagree with you I have never seen anything offensive in your posts. I occassionaly find one or two of the comments objectionable but I daresay the contributors would find my views objectionable as well.
The best thing about this photo is that the bloke in the blue t-shirt has a relic of the True Cross around his neck. His name is Ronan and he is soldier for Christ. Check him out: http://bit.ly/pD0kFK
Here we are in Harpley venerating the same relic: http://bit.ly/r22ADC
These people are idiots, but unfortunately have the ability to make much trouble. Praying for you.
Actually, "for the avoidance of doubt, the discussion or criticism of sexual conduct or practices or the urging of persons to refrain from or modify such conduct or practices shall not be taken of itself to be threstening or intended to stir up hatred": Public Order Act 1986, section 29JA.
Can I give you some support from the Church of England. There was no hatred in what you wrote, and those who are gay need to learn that Christians are also entitled to their opinions.
With thanks for a blog I read daily (even though I don't always agree with you, as you would expect)
Speaking as a woolly liberal, I've never found your blog to be remotely offensive. I disagree with you sometimes, on some issues, (just as I disagree with some of the people who comment) but I've never detected malice in your writing. I've detected malice in a few of the comments, but I would be hard-pressed to say whether the malicious element is representative of a particular area of the spectrum. As far as I can tell, you seem to let in an even number of crackpots. I know a few other woolly liberals who read your blog too, and to my knowledge none of them has ever come away feeling hurt or upset.
Some people have an amazing talent for being offended - or for being offended on behalf of others.
I am sure the bishop will see this cyber-bullying for what it is. He will support your teaching of the Catholic Church's principles.
I have never seen you post anything that was anti-homosexual so I can't think what offence has been caused, unless people are turning over stones to find it.
Inflammatory and inciting hatred? Promoting bigotry? This is hysterical to the point of absurdity.
I suspect this may have been generated by your quotes on gay marriage in churches published by the local paper (in the gay capital of England) and then widely circulated among those who hate the Catholic Church's teaching on homosexuality.
Incidentally, I would imagine that, like me, most posters on your blog are not of your congregation.
Christ caused widespread offence and was crucified at the behest of a baying mob who would not tolerate freedom of speech and who stopped their ears against the truth.
I think you should publish those comments which insulted the Pope and Catholic teaching, in a closed combox. They may well contravene Article 9 of the Human Rights Act.
Well, I have no idea what these people are reading (Maybe there is another blog by another Fr. Ray Blake? One never knows...).
In the meantime, the only course of action is to keep on doing what you're doing: offering clear thoughts and allowing civilised discourse in the comments. If that gets people up in arms, well, that's certainly a problem they have to deal with, and not you.
How very intolerant your correspondent is Father! My sympathies and prayers. I wouldn't have thought your bishop will be taken in by this sort of bullying though.
Take heart Father. The tactics of these bully boys bring to mind the intimidation of so many people by extreme political factions over many decades. Threats,vilification,and anti-Catholic sentiments, have always been their trademark.
Your Catholic and very balanced blog-site is respected the world over. We Catholics need your site, and those of other courageous and loyal Catholic priests, to speak the truths of our Faith. Thank you Father. May St Michael the Archangel, protect and guide you always.
Join with us and worship our gods, or we will destroy your gods and you with them.
This reflex is embedded in the human psyche and, as Dostoyevsky points out, is absolutely independent of belief in God. The demand for tolerance advances inexorably to the demand for affirmation and a violent antagonism to anything perceived to fall short of affirmation.
Ludicrous, wholly unwarranted, but in the current place and time far from surprising.
Above all, contemptible.
Fr Ray your comments are right and justified.
The homosexual activist lobby coupled with political clout will slowly but surely make the country 'a very cold house' for Catholic Christians and others who want to uphold authentic gospel values.
These activists are vicious and ruthless as recent events have shown
But history shows persecution of any kind has always help strengthen Christian backbone.
We should take comfort in this.
They are trying to convert us all to Aleister Crowleyism.
Nobody is allowed to have any belief that does not agree with theirs
Take courage! Your remarks are always temperate but public discourse lacks charity these days. Tatchell at least sticks up for Christians picked on by the police speaking out against homosexuals. His position is more nuanced that the ever ghastly Mr. Fry.
Typical of the new illiberal breed of liberalism that decries any views except its own as 'bigoted'.
Catholics are free to choose that homosexual relationships are immoral in the same way as they are free to choose that pre-marital sexual relationships are immoral. This is not bigotry, it is a decision to understand the human person in more than just genital terms.
Your correspondent’s letter should have ticked several boxes in the Seven-Point Strategy for Promoting Gay Marriage
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/7-point-strategy-for-promoting-gay-marriage/
In particular, Point Number 2: Using accusations of hate and irrational fear: The goal has been to convince the public that opponents of gay marriage are bigoted hate-mongers with irrational phobias. They are homophobic and full of venomous prejudice — not just people who choose to see things differently. They are portrayed as irrational religious fanatics who destroy civility. Supporters of traditional marriage are presented as dangerous people who cling to bigoted ancient laws of a by-gone era.
I suspect that this person has about as much intention of doing anything as a certain Laird in the Highlands did towards another priest. All wind and no action.
Anything that isn't slavish, gibbering approval seems to be considered 'hateful' in this context. I'm sorry you've had to put up with such silly accusations.
Congratulations, Father. You are now a card-carrying member of Catholics fighting the Kulturekampf. You have aroused the ire of the fascists who tolerate no criticism, no dissent and no opposition to their agenda. Official membership of this club is reserved only for those who have been the recipients of threats and intimidation from the lavender Gaystapo. There can be no tolerance of any opinion which deviates from the teaching that the homosexual lifestyle is truly wonderful and a gift to modern civilization. All resistance will be eliminated.
The simple statement and age old Catholic teaching that "sodomy is seriously sinful" is now classified as hate speech.
Your papers please, citizen! You have been sentenced to indefinite detention in a "re-education center" where you will be ...*ahem*..........persuaded to change your hateful opinion.
Most catholics especially those in USA do not have any idea of the Anti-Catholicism in the general public nor of catholic history in the english speaking world. George Orwell's book 1984 (when viewed as a history of The Catholic Church since Henry VIII)can shed some light. So do not worry about negative comments-they help with a reality check. Cheers
John
Sections 29B and 29J of the Public Order Act 1986 may be relevant. There are several sections inserted by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.
"29B - Use of words or behaviour or display of written material
(1) A person who uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, is guilty of an offence if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred."
"29J - Protection of freedom of expression
Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practising their religion or belief system."
Consequently it appears there is legal protection to discuss and criticise, or express antipathy or dislike of, or ridicule, insult or abuse those who express a different belief system to your own, provided that you don't use threatening words or behaviour or intend to stir up hatred.
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see you have much to worry about, Father.
I am a Christian and completely in favour of gay marriage and am/ have been involved in some LGBT Christian activism. I don't therefore agree with most of your comments, but I can't say that I find your tone offensive. To threaten to close a blog down -except in a very few instances - seems to me a type of bullying. However, when we blog on issues which provoke strong feeling, there will always be some out there that resort to abusive/ offensive inflammatory comments. You get such idiots from both the liberal and conservative sides. I simply ignore and delete any truly abusive comments, it is my prerogative, I suggest you do the same.
Fr Ray,
Just ignore these vile people. who are no doubt part of the: Diabolical Disorientation for the ruin of the Church, I Am Supporting You, Everyone else is supporting you, but most of all God Is Supporting You! Keep Going-The sooner the better the Holy Father gets rid of certain Members of the Bishop's Conference of England and Wales the better!
God Bless You
The homofascists at it again.
When they shut down your web site, and later when we are all silenced, we can all be proud that we were the ones with the more historically robust understanding of our legal right of free speech! That is the important thing, not whether those engaged in non-procreative, non-marital sex are putting their souls at risk and teaching our children to embrace a grave sin as legitimate self-expression.
It is a pity that the comments on your blog are being viewed as a negative attitude to same-sex "marriage".
On the contrary,they are rather a positive endorsement for conventional marriage as the foundation of a stable society, protecting the needs of the family.
Homosexuality has existed in civilisation for thousands of years, with various levels of acceptance, but this is the first time its proponents have demanded parity with marriage between a man and a woman.
On a lighter note, a priest is not required - indeed may not - change the words of the liturgy. Have sme-sex couples, wishing for a Church wedding, actually looked at the wording of the marriage service? Should cause some mirth!
This is an attempt to bully you into silencing yourself. Keep a copy of the correspondence for future ref, in case they intend to harrass you. Continue to do your duty as a Catholic priest - we are badly in need of your ministry and leadership. Lynda
As I would have expected, most comments are supportive of you Fr. and that is only right and proper.
I have already posted on your blog my support for christian marriage and I have also pointed out that we (that is people like myself) succeeded in getting it written into law, here in Australia, that marriage is between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all else.
Of course the vociferous homosexual lobby is busily at work trying to get this law changed. A recent poll in a Tasmanian newspaper was strongly in favour of changing this law. Anyone who knows anything about the kind of politicians that Tasmanians elect will not be surprised at this result. They support the Greens and the far Left. But I do believe that one or two Catholics can still be found there!
Hey Fr., America here:
I got into trouble by 'offending' the Gays and Lesbians in my parish early in my time, after ordination and wanted to talk to me about my lack of inclusiveness: all because I used the word 'marriage' and an example of a wedding I had celebrated recently.
(Their complaint? "We are offended that you talk about marriage, and we can't get 'married' in the Church or in the state.")
Bullying is common enough, and we all get beaten down and worn out. But that only means we get up, dust ourselves off and continue!
So be of good cheer! All us priests have 'been there'!
Christus Vincit!
Unfortunately there are bishops, priests,nuns, and theologians in the church that have given credence and support, indirectly to this assault on you good father.
Regardless, Jesus is with you I am sure.
God bless you, Fr. Blake. I will add you to my prayers for priests fighting the good fight. That list is getting rather long, but I suppose that a good thing. I will tell my children to pray for you as well. Stay stong and fight on!
Absolute nonsense!
I have always found your advice re homosexuality to be intelligent, charitable, quick to defend the dignity and beauty of same-sexed friendships (in the way Aelred gets at spiritual friendship) and equally quick to point out how man is not reducible to a "sexual orientation" but is fundamentally made in the image of God - and called to live out a vocation of holiness in that image which is his true beatitude.
I should take no notice Father. These people are seemingly more interested in sex and sexuality, where I think your arguments are more concerned with the "person" and the "vocation" irrespective of what tacky labels people promote.
"Gay" "Straight" and all the other smorgasbord should be loathe to all good Catholics: we're Catholic, made in the image and likeness of God. Some are given marriage, some remain eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 19:11).
God Bless you Father.
It amazes me that when anyone speaks or writes the truth, they are automatically labeled with words like "hate", "bigot", or "homophobic". Christians have always been persecuted and lied about when daring to speak the truth. Keep up the good work Father. Priests and bishops who speak the truth and stand behind that truth have our support!
Keep up the good work, Father. It is sad when people resort to bullying rather than engaging in rational argument and civil conversation. Don't let them intimidate you.
Hang in there, Father - blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
I envy you! You are responding to your call to preach the truth in charity. May God protect you and uphold you.
Father, my sympathies.
These "tolerant" people doesn't tolerate the slightest disagreement. When they say "hate speech" they simply mean "speeches I don't want to listen". Nothing more stupider than using this old cynical trick they are used to do. They are so blind they can't see the plain fact that they are not God nor untouchable from every criticism.
Stand fast, Father! And fear not. Our Lord has conquered the world. All they can do is exercise their "ius sperniandi".
My thoughts and prayers are with you. May God grant you patients and perseverance in this trial.
Thank your for the courage to stand for Catholic Faith.
@johnf
Here it is, they bullied Brazilian blogger Julio Severo.
Don't worry Father. The Lord will be your strength, and I'll keep you in my prayers.
You must be doing a wonderful job presenting the richness and fullness of the Catholic Faith that comes to us from Christ and his Apostles if the world hates you!
May God bless you and keep you always for your faithfulness and your bravery! You can be assured of my prayers from Oceanside, California!
In Christ,
Reactions like this are proof that a homosexual lifestyle is not intrinsically fulfilling. It continually needs to be confirmed from the outside. When you don't play along with that game you become a threat that has to be removed.
Father, thanks for the courage to be who you have to be.
Keep up the good work, Father.
The Roman Catholic church does not hate homosexuals any more than we hate philandering husbands or wives. We love them so much that we don't want them to go to hell for practicing mortal sin. We believe in free will and think they can choose to be chaste. Thank you Fr. Ray for your courage in teaching true catholic beliefs. God bless you.
Sincerely,
David Wendell of Oregon, USA
Dear Father Ray,
I support Catholic teaching and the right to have it preached. I support you in your endeavours and I support your blog.
I have been praying for you and ALL the readers of your blog.
Without trying to be overly pious or sanctimonious, may the cross you are currently bearing be a means of santification for you and your Parish.
Please forgive my ignorance, but who is the person standing on the right, dressed in white? What is the event, and what is she or he doing?
Fr Ray,
May god bless & kepp you as you teach the truth! Praying for you & your courage to teach Pam
Fr. Ray, I'll be praying for you during Exposition this morning.
Keep up the excellent work!
Support, solidarity and prayers.
Mundabor
Good on you Father , God bless - you`ve got to be doing something right .Prayers for you & the peace of Our Lord be with all His people .
Pax et bonum .
Wasn't there something about "when people speak all kinds of calumny against you on My account"...?
I wonder if homosexuals would be 'offended' if heterosexuals organized 'straight pride' festivals. Marches, parades....single people, married people, people with dogs named 'Skippy' - all coming together to celebrate their good fortune in being heterosexual. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?
Would they see it as 'hateful and provocative?' Probably. What I object to most about the homosexual agenda is them wanting to adopt children, and the pro-gay agenda powers that be who bend over backwards for them in these desires, to the point of them excluding NORMAL, MARRIED (legitimately) couples. Particularly religious couples.
Yes, I said 'NORMAL.' So, sue me, homosexual people, I don't think you're 'normal.' I don't fault homosexuals for having those desires. I fault them if they carry out the desire. Just like I would fault a straight married person who looked with lust on another not their spouse.
Just because a person may have kleptomaniac tendencies, doesn't mean you put them in charge of the grocery till to 'prove' something.
I don't believe people should be harassed and made fun of if they are homosexual. That's just common decency and courtesy. But they don't need a medal for having those tendencies either.
Kudos from WDTPRS land. Gay activists can't change Truth, so they try to bury it.
Typical.
Keep at it.
Keep up the good work and don't let them get to you. It hurts people to see the truth and it is easy to shoot the messenger.
Keep up the good work and don't let them get to you. It hurts people to see the truth and it is easy to shoot the messenger.
Left-footer, here's a link which will tell you.
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/08/must-read-young-persons-account-harass-harassment-and-violence-at-wyd/
Sorry you'll have to copy and paste. I can't do the techie thing.
Prayers for you Father, that you'll continue the good work!
I am offended by their offence, by their anti-chaste bigotry, by their Christophobic hatred of genuine followers of Christ and by their threats against our community. So there.
In all seriousness, the truth is offensive to the modern relativistic, secular culture. Until that changes, such attacks should sadly be something every priest knows well. We are about saving souls, not popularity.
God bless you Father Ray.
Thank you for saying and doing what is right. I'm praying for you and all those you serve.
Fr. Blake - keep fighting the good fight. You have lots of prayers and support.
-Christophe
Keep up the good work Father. I will keep you and the the bullies in my prayers. Please remember there is charity in the truth. All of us have a responsibility to be our brother's keeper. Those who do not correct their brothers in error will also be held accountable.
fxr2
Fr. Blake,
Thank you for your courage in standing up to the truth even in the face of open hostility. I find it encouraging, especially as that same level of hostility is becoming increasingly a part of life over on this side of the pond too.
Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us!
Fr. Joseph Mack
I think the quick response to "I am offended" is quickly asking, "Are you offended by what I say or what I believe?". Then I would quickly reply, "I am offended by what you are saying too. Now can we get back to reason and stop with the emoting?"
May Our Lady, Queen of Priests, pray for you!
Keeping you in my prayers.
"Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you." (Mt 5:11-12)
Thank you, Fr. Blake, for preaching the truth, when too many priests are intimidated by cowardly bullies. Keep the faith (as I know you will). And keep preaching it faithfully (as I know you will).
Just wanted you to know that I have added you to the list of priests I pray for every day by name.
Reverend Father, you are fighting the good fight. Christus vincit! I will pray for you.
God bless you, Father Ray. You are not alone in being harassed. Irish children's rights activist, Jillian Van Turnhout, appointed to the Irish Senate this year by Taoiseach Enda Kenny,has been getting dog's abuse from some for not nominating Senator David Norris, who proclaims himself as 'gay', for the Irish presidential election. The Irish Independent reported this yesterday: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/senator-accuses-norris-supporters-of-harassment-2886078.html and the Irish Examiner commented on it today, calling it 'A Shabby Moment': http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/a-shabby-moment-168544.html. I am certain that Senator Norris, though I hope and pray he won't be elected, has nothing to do with this.
They unfortunately - and wrongly - believe that tolerance is a one-way street and forget our Christian commitment to love all the children of God. I pray for your strength and perseverance and for a softening of their hearts.
"We need to remember that tolerance is not a Christian virtue. Charity, justice, mercy, prudence, honesty — these are Christian virtues. And obviously, in a diverse community, tolerance is an important working principle. But it’s never an end in itself. In fact, tolerating grave evil within a society is itself a form of serious evil.” – Most Rev. Charles Chaput, Archbishop of Philadelphia
I, too, will keep you in my prayers so that you may not yield to this sort of intimidation.
Hang in there Father! We are praying for you.
I add my voice of solidarity: stand firm in the face of intimidation.
Every one of us needs to be prepared to speak the truth in charity and be prepared for the likelihood of these reactions. Laity also need to speak clearly about the moral truth of these matters and about Christ who came to free us from sin. Same sex attraction is not in itself sinful but same sex sexual behavior always is. We also need to be firmly against heterosexual behavior such as contraception, pornography, fornication and adultery which are also against marriage and are used by homosexual activists to argue that their sex relationships are equivalent to marriage. In other words, a basic problem is a distorted and porn-ified understanding of the relationship of man and woman, which has opened the door to all this.
Fr Blake you have been loving. I prayed for you!!
Father - Hang in there and ignore the nonsense. They know not what they do.
Hang in there Father.
This is a function of narcissism, for one; and it is, as Father Z said on his blog (sending us to you!), it is bullying.
It might be pointed out, to fair-minded folks who otherwise may not be Catholic or share our beliefs, that this sort of moping and whining is not a good development for society. What becomes of us if we all burst with anger when someone says something we don't like? It turns us all into infants who must be minded, or into something more chaotic.
I will be praying for you, Fr. Blake, that you will persevere in speaking the truth until you hear Our Lord say: "Well done, good and faithful servant!"
Of course these offended persons' problem is not with the messenger actually but rather with the message and its Author.
Please continue to speak the truth in love.
Sharon in USA (reader of WDTPRS)
God bless you for teaching Catholic truth in season and out of season!
God bless you, Father!
Keep on teaching the truth and never mind the homosexualist bullies.
There has been such shockingly negetive remarks about smokers and obese people which have been spoken openly on radio, television and newspapers. How has it has been allowed when considering others feelings regarding sexuality have taken such a presidence that Christians have to "shut up".
The subject of Homosexuality is studied under the heading of Pathology in medical college. Death!
That is the truth of that lifestyle, in the same way both smoking and obesity can cause death.
The light of God's Truth hurts the eyes so to talk about death of the Soul lost through fornication, well, that's where the trouble is. Satan hates it brought out into the open. A Priest's duty is to save souls and to urge the Sacrament of Penance. We are so fortunate to have such a redeeming Mystery and the men who have the power to use it. Deo Gratias!
.
Solidarity and support. "blessed are those..."
Father, we appreciate your standing firm against the darts of the Evil One. "Damn the torpedoes... full speed ahead!"
God bless you Father for being a voice of Truth in a society culture so degraded. You have my prayers.
Gratias Agite!
I guess your detractors have never heard Voltaire: "I may not agree with what you have said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Lord have mercy.
[via Fr Z]
Father, I promise to keep you in my poor prayers.
I just want to add my support for you Father. I have read your blog for a long time and have never seen anything in it that would give offense to any but the most intolerant. I know that your Bishop is a man with a reputation for the loving care he gives to his priests - I am sure he will support you in every way.
Fr. Blake, Your blog demonstrates that you have always been most charitable and compassionate in your ministry. God bless and protect you. Thank you for defending the teaching of the Church while ministering to those who who seek to live in accord with that same teaching. Prayers and God's blessing.
An odd man out here in one way. I am a happily homosexual man who parted ways with the Church on that issue. That was a long time ago and the Sturm und Drang has settled for me. I do not buy the Church's stance, but I do understand it and respect the logic of it. The Catholic Church cannot approve of same-sex activity without unravelling the axiom on which its entire sexual morality is based. Why would anyone expect it to do that?
I am also an American who was brought up to respect freedom of speech. And this is where I am most deeply disappointed in and put off by the victimist antics to which you have been subjected. As a psychotherapist, I am all too familiar with the pattern of victims who harbor within them their own little Inner Tyrant. Too many people have the adolescent or even infantile belief that feeling offended licenses them to annihilate the voice causing them distress. And to feel morally superior in the process.
This nasty pattern shows up not only among gays, but women, Blacks, Muslims...whoever feels that their self-perception as an Approved Victim releases them from the constraints of adult and civil discourse and behavior. They feel perfectly justified in treating their "enemies" in ways which, if used on them, would have them howling in outrage. They fail to see (or if they do, to care) that they have become the very "right wing fundamentalist" bullies they moan about and demonize.
Our current liberal culture --with its toxic notion of "hate speech"--promotes and rewards this pathology, which substitutes a bizarre combo of whining and aggressiveness for real self-respect and vigorous adult disagreement.
My message to your "plaintiffs" would be simple: Grow up.
Father Ray: I have tried to be as reasonable as possible here. I am very happy in my faith and my own relationship with God. Some of my dearest Catholic friends are homosexual. I have Catholic heterosexual friends who are either married, living with partners, or single; very few of the latter are celibate. For me, part of my faith is not to judge and to have the strength to live by my convictions. I wouldn't tolerate anyone shouting homophobic abuse at my friends, but I was disturbed by aspects of the "Pride" events this year in Brighton which I felt bordered on heterophobic.
I showed your comments to three gay Catholic friends: not one thought that you were expressing or inciting hatred. My friend who attends St Mary Mag's said he was saddened by what he called your "non-acceptance". But all of them were concerned that the particular reaction you reported reeked of bullying and inverted bigotry.
Father, As one of your penitents, I endorse Aaron's comments, I want to thank you for your constant kindness.
I also want to ask you who made these absurd comments, are they supposed to be taken seriously?
Dear Fr. Blake,
Sorry for the trouble being inflicted by those who seem unable to temper themselves with fairness.
The Truth hurts.
(from WDTPRS - )
Kevin,
The email I quoted was from someone called Nigel Nash, who styles himself "Brighton & Hove LGCM Convenor".
Other threats were made by a Richard Ashby, who also identifies himself as "Sane Anglican".
Nigel Nash is the child protection co-ordinator at St Nicholas' the CofE church at the end of your road.
If he was so concerned why didn't he wander down the road.
Naught so, err, strange as folk!
Huh?
Oh well!
This is Nigel Nash
http://www.lgcm.org.uk/groups/brighton/
Thank you, Father, for your clear and charitable stand for Catholic teaching.
I believe there is a vast silent majority out there who are praying for the courage to speak up. You have given them just that.
God bless you and keep you.
Another of Fr. Z's army.
Hmm, maybe the Catholics that Mr Nash mentions (if they really exist) should pay closer attention to the teachings of the Church.
Fr. Ray is true to Catholic teaching and should be applauded.
I am concerned that Mr Nash has taken it upon himself to engage in these passive aggressive threats. Is he really a suitable person to hold his position at the CofE School?
Richard Ashby belong with this group
http://thinkinganglicans.org.uk/
Mr Nash & Mr Ashby might not be aware of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Article 18 is of note
"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance."
Their threats are surely a human rights violation?
A bit late on the scene here, Father, but just a note of support. I'm sure +Kieran will see through this nonsense.
Have blogged: Fr Ray Blake under fire
Dear Fr. Ray. You are quite right to criticise your local MP. How dare he suggest that Christians cannot celebrate the sacrament of marriage unless they also condone/allow gay marriages in churches.
Some countries are trying to force a gay agenda in schools under the guise of preventing bullying. Perhaps whoever wrote to you with threatening comments might just reflect on their self projection here.
Where's it all going to end?
I think Nigel might be upset about this invitation being declined.
http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/2007/06/definite-no-to-this-invitation.html
I came here at the recommendation of Fr. Z ... good man, himself ... thank you Father for teaching clearly and truthfully ... praying for you and for your bishop ... may God bless you
Fr. Blake,
I for one applaud you for standing up for the teachings of the church. Ignore the jerks who don't want to see that tolerance, acceptance and freedom are two way streets. You'll always have my staunch support from America. Keep speaking the truth of The Church.
Solidarity Fr. Your blog is never offensive. This bullying and hectoring seems to be a current theme amongst certain Catholic and Christian bloggers.
Have you seen what has happened to Stacey Trasancos in the USA? Her children have been threatened and The Guardian have called her stupid and vile. http://www.acceptingabundance.com/
This is frightening and enraging in equal measure.
Fr. Ray,
I am proud that you are a brother priest, for you have taken seriously our obligation to remain faithful to Christ's teaching, and to his Church. My prayers are with you in what may prove to be difficult times ahead. If the UK is like Canada, I'm sure that your opponents will find some tribunal or rights commission to drag you in front of so that they can demand their rights take precedence over your rights to protect and preserve what belongs to the Church: the sacrament of marriage.
Let me know on my blog if this comes to pass and we'll rustle up a prayer chain to support you on this side of the Atlantic.
Fr. Tim Moyle
Diocese of Pembroke, Canada
www.frtimmoyle.blogspot.com
Keep up the good fight. We've lost too many good priests due to liberals and aetheists.
You are in my prayers, father!
Cheers, from the US.
Going to Westminster Cath. tomorrow, Father. There'll be a candle with your name on it by St John Southworth
Sancte Michael, ora pro nobis! (Florida, USA.)
Dear Fr.,
You see how many friends you have?! Keep calm and carry on and ignore these silly threats. Remember that our Church was built on persecution.
Out of solidarity, I'll drag myself to a New Rite Mass tomorrow!
Tim
Dear Fr. Ray thank you for your wonderful blog. Please don't let the dictatorship of Relativism silence you, with prayers and best wishes
Just came over from Father Z's blog to say that I, with the many others who have commented, am praying for you and for all the other priests who are hatefully accused of "hate speech" when they speak the truth in a rational manner.
Mary Conces
Keep proclaiming the truth. We are praying for you and for all the ordained.
Bless you Fr. Ray, Catholics around the world support you and you are in our prayers.
I think the liberals may just discover that Heterophobia is also a crime, and descriminating against Heterosexuals incites hatred, too. The law forces me to tolerate what others do, but nothing on the face of this Earth can ever, nor will ever, force me to accept what others do. What others choose to do, and what I choose to do, all have ramifications, and if I am choosing a particular way of life, I had better be ready to accept all the criteria. That is why we have Church in the first place. I have chosen to become a Christian, and although a cradle Catholic, I chose to return to the Faith. In these times of persecution of priests and heterosexuals, I begin to wonder some days, but what keeps me going is my new delight in Our Blessed Mother, and in the beautiful inspirations of The Holy Spirit. It hardly seems as though 10 years have passed since my journey back. Father Ray, you have been given the gift of vocation, and Our Lord has called you to a special mission. We are living as the nation of Isreal under Roman rule in Our Lord's time. God has sent us a Saviour, and many days He comes disguised as Fr. Ray. A very poor disguise, I might add, because He shines right through to us anyway. Satan did not die on Calvary, and he is always very present, usually disguised as the people we would least suspect. His disguises aren't really too effective either, because sooner or later, his personality will come shining through. Wolves in sheep's clothing are a dime a dozen, and we need to be vigilant in these times. My prayer for fighting hypocrisy is simple: "Dear Holy Spirit, lead these people to Matthew 11:20-24, and open their eyes." Our Jesus was no wimp, and I resent those who say, or imply that He would tell anything but the truth. If one is offended by the truth, then perhaps one should take another look at their choices.
Kathleen
Thank you, Father, for your faithful teaching and charitable works, esp. for this blog. Tomorrow, at Sunday Mass, I will remember you at the consecration. St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle...
Wear it as badge of honour. "Homosexual Catholics" an oxymoron. Reminds me of a thought I had once "I'm a vegetarian only not practicing".
Chin up, Father – lots of prayers in support of you!
Michael Voris has a series of videos up on homosexuality and the gay agenda within the Church. I’d be more concerned about the threat ad intra than ad extra. He also has a good line about the proper use of crosiers…!
You have my support, Father. I'll say a prayer for you.
Keep up the good work Father. The Truth always wins in the end. The problem is their ddisordered way of life makes them think irrationally and they can't see the wood for the trees.
Father, easy for me to say, but try not to let this get you down.
There is no such thing as the 'gay community' (you need to believe in identity politics for that, which I don't). These are just a bunch of nasty, intolerant bullies.
Ironically, it was only a decade ago that the so-called 'gay community' howled down anyone - like Andrew Sullivan - who called for gay marriage, calling them self-haters who were trying to copy heterosexual values which they, as a superior caste, had 'risen above'. Then they realised the issue annoyed George Bush and Christians, and suddenly they were at war with Eastasia, and have always been at war with Eastasia...
Deeply sinister, the lot of them.
PS I'm gay. They don't speak for me.
Dear Fr Ray,
Just wanted to add my support. I usually find your blog posts to be among the most balanced on the Catholic blogosphere - truly "pastoral"! Don't be discouraged - we need priests like you!
When we meet problems over "freedom of speech" it is worth knowing the response of President of Columbia University USA Lee Bollinger when he was criticised for allowing the President of Iran to visit, on the first occasion.
He is a very liberal man and one I often disagree with but on this he was spot on.
These matters are not about your or my freedom to speak, but on the rights of society to hear and listen - and then make up its mind. Without that , no democracy can function.
I hope you find that helpful
I would suggest that if your bishop is concerned about these allegations, Fr Blake, that he should consult the Anglican Bishop of Chichester on the matter - as both your tormentors are known to him. Googling Richard Ashby,
I see that a person of that name suggests Jeffrey John as the next bishop.
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/005063.html
Thank God for priests like you, Father, who always preach the Gospel, in spite of difficult personal consequences. It is a great inspiration. Be assured of our support and prayers.
East Anglia Seminarians
Dear Fr Ray
Was this email, and any other similar messages sent to you, anonymised or did the sender identify him/her/whatever-self?
If the sender CAN be identified, I would suggest you report that person to the Police. This email was clearly meant to be threatening/intimidating. It was meant to cause you, not just upset -- that is not nice -- it was meant to cause fear and alarm: and that is a criminasl offence.
Moreover, such a transmission by electronic means might provide you scope for an action for libel at civil law. The words used are clearlly defamatory and are patently beyond the defence of "veritas".
Perhaps Private Eye might advise you as to how to launch a Golden Balls type fund. But perhaps you'd rather not!
Keep up the good work.
Fr Blake. For the enlightenment of your correspondents I must emphasise that I made no threats against you of any sort but I have indeed written to your bishop specifically complaining that the response about the establishment of a fascist dictatorship to enforce Catholic morality remains on your blog. The apparent endorsement of fascism by a catholic priest is a very serious matter. No wonder that I and others are angry and that our responses to you may seem intemperate; especially since we have not been allowed to publish our response.
The relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and the fascist dictators in the mid 20th century was equivocal to say the least. Moreover, and more importantly, something like 50,000 homosexuals were murdered in the death camps and many more imprisoned by the Nazis. The last survivor of the men who wore the pink triangle died earlier this year. You may also remember that during the early stages of the aids epidemic voices were raise, many of them Christian, which seriously proposed rounding up gay men (women never seem to be such a threat) and incarcerate them.
So you must appreciate that such a blog is a very serious threat. It’s not about disliking who we are or disagreeing with our views. The fascist threat is about persecution, violence and death. They give licence to those who would attack us in the street, whose fantasies are fuelled and reinforced and who may act out those fantasies in public. You may remember the Brixton bomber of a few years ago who deliberately set out to murder gay men? You must appreciate that Gay men take these threats very seriously and that it is important to have them drawn to much wider attention in order to expose those who threaten us.
After a private correspondence with Fr Blake I had decided not to try to post anything further on his blog. In the light of his having named me again, I hope that he will allow me the right of reply.
As someone who has struggled with same-sex attractions, I thank and applaud Fr Ray for telling the truth.
Truth-tellers will always be persecuted, their voices drowned out by rhetoric, emotionalism, wooly thinking and outright lies - but the truth must be told all the same.
"Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"
After dungeon, fire and sword, perhaps the worst weapon wielded against us is pleasure. Pleasure, as Aristotle pointed out, is harder to fight than anger. Harder to resist than organised hatred against the things of faith. The pleasure of being thought compassionate, tolerant and accepting of difference is seductive. The discomfiture of being thought harsh, intolerant and hateful is, of course, extreme. The 'pleasure weapon' finds a hundred points of attack on an already softened-up psyche, individual or collective, tempting us to rationalise our yielding to the gay agenda as a form of Christian compassion. This agenda is nothing less than the co-option of our total sanction of a disordered lifestyle. Accept the agenda and feel the immediate flush of pleasure and quasi-moral altitude of being one of the 'tolerant', 'compassionate' and 'enlightened'. The price of acceptance is denominated in souls. The oft-used artillery - the putative 'massive offence' caused by simple truth-telling - is laid upon the orthodox in great arcing strafes from all manner of media. We should resist with calmness and true compassion.
A luta continua and God bless, Fr Ray.
Richard Ashby,
You wrote saying you had written to my Bishop with the intention that he should close this blog. You also said you had received a copy of Mr Nash's email accusing me of "hate speech" and endorsed it.
As for "Just Another Mad Catholic", he called for a “coup d'etat” on the model of Franco, he was joking. No-one took him seriously and only later in an email did you. You did not challenge him on that post. I would have endorsed your views had you done so, it was an adolescent. The only person to respond to him called him “mad”. Even so, he did not call for Nazi mass murder or the killing of homosexuals or anyone else. Franco was pretty unsavoury but he was alternative to Communist mass murderers. The laws in Spain against homosexual activity under his rule was not much different to those here, I would certainly not wish to see a return to policemen hiding in public lavatories.
I did not allow some of your comments because they were not on topic, they were based on your own agenda, your own understanding of Christianity, there a plenty of forums where you can put them, indeed where you have. You already have a name on the net you are not in that sense a “private person” but someone who’s views are widely known and published.
Stand fast, Fr Blake, we're all praying for you.
This claim made by Ashby, that allowing a daft comment to remain on your blog is an endorsement of the views of the commenter, demonstrates a silly lack of understanding of the nature and quality of conversation on a blog.
I can only hope that Nash and Ashby will eventually mature into the realisation that the use of such inflated claims of offense only serves to make themselves and the causes that they espouse look ridiculous.
Anyone less like a fascist than you, Father, would be hard to imagine. Your posts are always compassionate, reflective and charitable.
All this does is to bring home what a claustrophobic, dark and in-turned world the gay scene must be, and hence reinforces the importance of speaking the truth.
No doubt there will be more of this kind of stuff in the future, and you will just have to soldier on. No bishop worth his salt is going to back such idiocy.
Benedicite Father. Many priests are afraid of daring to preach against 'gay' behaviour because of the complaints that 'pretend' Catholics will make to their bishops about it. Unfortunately, in some dioceses, those complaints do result in faithful priests being subjected to terrible pressures from within. I recall that padre Pio was asked about those who didn't believe in hell & he responded (paraphrase)'Don't worry. They'll believe it when they get there.'
Another loyal reader weighing in for your support, dear Fr. Blake. Please continue to speak the truth in love, in season and out of season. We need more priests like you.
Dear Father Ray
I have always found your posts regarding homosexuality to be reasoned and very compassionate. Keep up the good work. I and I am sure many others will pray for you.
You have my support; prayers coming your way, joining a lengthening list unfortunately.....
An excellent example of Cranmer's Law in action.
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/cranmers-law.html
You are always in our prayers Fr Ray.
Father thankyou for your witness to our Holy Mother the Catholic Church. We have been blessed with 5 children and will offer a rosary tomorrow in thanksgiving for your ministry.
I have tried using the blog "The Pulp.it" just now and I find that clicking on any of its links causes my computer to freeze and I have had to shut down completely with my version of Internet Explorer unable to be closed.
In other words....I suggest that some hacker has been at work shutting down "The Pulp.it".
The hatred mongers seem to have had some success with that Catholic blogger.
Dear Fr Blake,
May I thank you for your most informative and interesting Blog ? You are always so kind (particularly to the folks in Brighton)and please know that there are thousands of people who will defend you in this most unfair, sharp-tongued, totally-wrong attack that is full of hysteria. Our Lady will defend you.
Dear Father,
What was written was balanced and there is nothing wrong in it. Those who protest are the ones who are bigots because they are the ones who hurls false accusations against the Church. Prayers on the way.
"The gay community"? There is no such thing.
"The gay community"? There is no such thing.
I have read just about all of your blogs and can recall nothing whatsoever that could be construed as anti-gay.
As I understand it, the church states that sex that takes place outside marriage and is not open to the begetting of children is a sin, but that is a million miles from being anti-gay.
The popes have said that a homosexual orientation is a disorder, but that too is a long way from being anti-gay, any more than saying that a condition that is a genetic disorder is the same thing as hating those who are affected by it.
Since the gay lifestyle has become an industry and a profitable one, there is money behind it.
Let's have a Gradgrind moment and sort out the facts of Fr. Blake's "incitement to hatred, bigotry" etc., etc. Out of 159 posts in the last six months up to 22 September
2 have been about gay marriage in church. These have been responses, not self-generated.
3 brief mentions of homosexual/heterosexual behaviour incorporated into wider comments of how we should live according to Catholic Church teaching,
1 in relation to gay anti-Catholic protests at the 2011 World Youth Day in Spain.
All expressed in well-modulated terminology.
Hmmm. Out of thousands of words, Fr. Blake's accusers would appear to have very narrow reading interests. I recommend a full reading of all his posts to understand how gently and how honestly he calls us to holiness.
Richard Ashby states: “something like 50,000 homosexuals were murdered in the death camps and many more imprisoned by the Nazis”.
Not only is this totally untrue, if, as I presume he is, Mr Ashby is active in homosexualist politics, he must know it to be untrue and is therefore guilty of deliberately lying in order to mislead anyone interested in this discussion.
Why he should lie I do not know, for the truth is itself pretty horrendous. But, obviously, lying about the facts and figures is the norm for the homosexualist lobby. After all, in face of their various campaigns they can hardly be expected to admit that statistically homosexuals are a bearly significant proportion of the population: less than 1% of the male population and nowhere near even that amongst the female population.
Based upon impartial, professional research, the United States Holocaust Memorial believe that between 1933 and the end of the Second World War in 1945, about 100,000 male homosexuals were arrested in Germany. Of this number about half — that is in the order of 50,000 — were convicted and served time in prison. Moreover, an unknown number were ordered by the courts to be confined in mental hospitals and 100 or so of these men were castrated for reasons unknown, but one must assume that there must have been more to it than mere homosexuality since this was, statistically, such an unusual occurrence.
As to the concentration camps, which Ashby is careful to emotively style “the death camps", the USHM states: “Analyses of fragmentary records suggest that between 5,000 and 15,000 homosexual men were imprisoned in concentration camps, where many died from starvation, disease, exhaustion, beatings, and murder.”
Note that word “MANY”. What the USHM precisely mean by this can only be surmised but objectively it can only imply at the very most a couple of hundred, but quite possibly a lot less. And the figures given by other reputable sources would tend to support that. So where did Ashby’s murdered “50,000” come from?
Ashby also states: "The relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and the fascist dictators in the mid-20th century was equivocal to say the least."
This would only be true to someone who knew nothing of the true relationship between the Holy See and those dictators and nothing about the relationships between the so-called European democracies and those same dictators. To say nothing of the United States.
The detractors upset is based on a refusal to accept God's love and wisdom for themselves. Their refusal is the basis for your condemnation and my delight in your teachings.
Keep up the good work, Fr.!
Et adjuvet te Deus Omnipotens et custodiat Cui est omnis honor et gloria in saecula saeculorum.
Prayers for you and all the priests, especially those on the internet who give so much to those of us in faraway places.
Ashby & Nash (sounds like a music hall act) have achieved what years of LGBT political infighting, irredeemably naff gay-so-called-culture, pseudo-academic language-corroding "Queer Theory", and the ludicrous bourgeois posturing of celebrity gay advocates have all failed to do - made me feel embarrassed to be gay. Father Ray you make me glad to be a Catholic - thank you for that.
Hughie,
I tried publishing your comment, it hasn't appeared, yet.
However I don't think we really want to quibble on numbers or get into further discussion about them here. Historians have their own agendas.
It was terrible what happened, and here I agree with Richard Ashby, it should never happen again, we must take warnings from history, especially as some parts of Africa are speaking about imposing the death penalty for homosexual activity.
I meet too many people who leave their homeland because of their sexual orientation, persecution and threats happen now. History can be debated, we can't do anything about that, we can do something about the present!
I feel very sorry for you, Father. It is absolutely undeserved and reeks of the worst sort of vicious bullying. Shame on them.
Just a thought. The group in question is, I believe a registered charity. The Charity Commissioners may have something to say about intimidatory behaviour like this were it drawn to their attention.
Prayers from our family across the oceans, Father. Praying for you and your persecutors.
"Sexual orientation" is just liberal speak. Words and phrases used to disguise truth should not be used by Catholic. Leave them to the Father of Lies.
No African country plans to execute homosexuals. There was a proposal (in Uganda I believe) that the sodomite rape of children should carry the death penalty - a quite different issue.
The silly BBC spin on this story was just more lies from the gay lobby.
Regards: Don
My support and prayers, Father. Would it be worth inviting the national LGCM to dissociate themselves from the e-mail and affirm your right to free speech?
I agree with your response to Hughie but at the same time I think his comment is important and told me something I didn't know (if he's right, of course). I've always taken it as gospel that the Nazis killed 50.000 gay people. Needless to say the truth is bad enough; but this use of inflated statistics plucked out of thin air is all too common, and by cranking up the sense of victimhood it contributes towards the climate in which people feel entitled to resort to censorship for self-protection. So I think it's more than a quibble.
Mr Grumpy said...
"I've always taken it as gospel that the Nazis killed 50.000 gay people. Needless to say the truth is bad enough; but this use of inflated statistics plucked out of thin air is all too common, and by cranking up the sense of victimhood it contributes towards the climate in which people feel entitled to resort to censorship for self-protection. So I think it's more than a quibble."
"Cranking up the sense of victimhood"? Are you for real? Do you think that before God the sight of one man killed because he has a homosexual orientation is any less grievous than if 15,000 are killed?
Whilst numbers of those killed in the Holocaust is important for historical accuracy and analysis it makes no difference whatsoever to the grievous nature of the crime, which is itself a sin that cries to Heaven.
Do we say that one unborn child aborted is better before God than ninety-nine? or do we say that God is grieved as much by the loss of a single life than as by the loss of many lives.
In all charity I would suggest that you take a hard think about what you write before you post it. Your discussion of "gay people"
(you mean "people" - men and women with the same dignity before God irrespective of whether they are "straight" or "gay")
looks like a shorthand to express a hierarchy on the value of life before God and men.
fr.ray prayers
The problem with the argument that one life is worth as much as ninety-nine is that it can be reversed. The pro-aborts for example can argue that there will always be some abortion, therefore we might as well have a lot.
Regards: Don
Thank you for being so brave about the Truth. God bless your fantastic ministry. We must all witness to the Church's beautiful, rational, Revelation about sexuality and the sacredness of heterosexual marriage.
Don McGovern said...
"The problem with the argument that one life is worth as much as ninety-nine is that it can be reversed. The pro-aborts for example can argue that there will always be some abortion, therefore we might as well have a lot.
Regards: Don"
Well yes it can be reversed but God's moral laws are not subject to human Utilitarian principles.
Aaron Saunderson-Cross:
I had hoped that I had made it sufficiently clear that I do not take the Nazis' crimes against homosexual people lightly. Apparently it was not clear, so: I do not take them lightly.
From my merely human perspective killing 5,000 people is a less serious crime than killing 50,000 people. If that was not the case there would be nothing exceptional about the evil associated with Hitler. I would suggest that one reason God gives us the ability to do maths is that it enables us to distinguish between greater and lesser evils. In a fallen world this is important; I hope you and I will come to a place where it has ceased to be important.
The way in which you take exception to my comment suggests that you don't think bogus statistics really count as bearing false witness. Can that be right?
"Do we say that one unborn child aborted is better before God than ninety-nine? or do we say that God is grieved as much by the loss of a single life than as by the loss of many lives."
I would consider it a great achievement if we could reduce the number of abortions by half. The ones still happening would continue to be a scandal.
Finally:
"looks like a shorthand to express a hierarchy on the value of life before God and men."
Nonsense.
Fr Ray,
I am sure you are not going to be intimidated by this sort of bullying by those with their own axes to grind. Your blog is always charitable and consistent with the teaching of the Church.
All that those individuals who attack you achieve is to show their own exaggerated opinions and prejudices, and to make themselves look humourless and pretty ridiculous. I will pray for them, and continue to pray for you and your excellent ministry.
Hurray for Fr Ray. Your balanced and accurate approach exactly follows the teaching of the Church - hate the sin, but love the sinner.
All the best Father.
Sadly today's world really is rather Orwellian.
We have set up a new blog in Scotland:
http://defendmarriageinscotland.org/
@'thebones' LMAO !! that pretty much sums it up. So called LIBERALS liberally allow everything they AGREE with to flourish.
Why should you 'have to allow' any comment by people who want to put down the catholic religion. I am so sick of all these people who apparently have nothing better to do than search out comments that they personally are offended by and threaten 'legal action' against people. The majority of leftist type sites don't allow any comments that are against their beliefs, except the really insane ones, so they can say 'see they're insane.'
I love how they said 'amounts to nothing less than incitement blah blah blah', actually wording their accusation in the style of the language of the law. I guess that makes their complaint more valid, huh?
You know, I don't understand why the church is being hit so hard with hateful comments, and pastors/priests being affected by law, because they acknowledge what the bible says: Homosexuality is a sin. Muslims call for them to be murdered or executed, why don't the hate mongers focus on the more direct threat!? OH I know why, because they're scared! They behave like it's so important, but, they will only attack people they think can't or won't fight back.
My son was raised Baptist, in the USA, but around the age of 11 or 12 started mentioning an interest in Catholicism. For some reason many non-catholics seem to be 'against' the catholic religion, I don't know why. Anything that keeps a child or teen involved in Christianity should be encouraged. Anyway, at age 14 he took first communion and was baptized into the Catholic religion. He died 5 months later. I found comfort knowing that he had found some joy in the Catholic church, even though it wasn't my church.
"...Anyway, at age 14 he took first communion and was baptized into the Catholic religion. He died 5 months later..."
Congratulations.
You have a Saint in Heaven.
When we die, we go to the age of Christ; thirty three years old.
You can ask him to advocate for you in Heaven.
Your boy stood up for the Faith in the face of much opposition.
*
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