It could be that he is seen as 'The Great Reformer'* , turning his back on 2000 years of Church teaching and starting something new. Those who disparage this position are perhaps blind to the fact most of the baptised have already done this, perhaps the Pope is merely catching up with them and the rest of the world.Maybe the role of the Pope is to become the leader of a World Council of Churches or even religions,
When people criticised JPII's Assisi events, I used to half-heartedly point out that no other religious leader other than the Pope could call together such a band of diverse religious leaders from the Dalai Lama to Animist priestesses. Obviously, as Pope St JPII did, one can read the Vatican Council's documents in this light. Perhaps the Church is destined to become another NGO led by liberal opinion rather than the teaching of Jesus Christ.
Benedict introduced, for good or ill, something new into the Papacy, the possibility of resignation, or of deposition, before that the only way of getting rid of a Pope was murder: smothering or poison, or the quack medicine that finally saw off the ailing Pius XII.Something seems to be abroad at the moment, posters going up over Rome, fake copies of L'Osservatore or even satirical songs like 'That's Amoris' being circulated among Vatican staff, the response seems to be typical of South American dictators: getting the police in to investigate and clamping down on the perpetrators and treating something which really is school-boyish as a major incident. In response, it seems, even the Pope's Council of Cardinals have made a 'pledge of allegiance'. Today Cardinal Coccopalmerio cancelled a press release of his book on Amoris Laetitia, which some had seen as an answer to the 'dubia', one suspects to be briefed by the Pope and his advisers.
Francis.
Francis' legacy, whatever else, will be that rather than building bridges he has put up walls between Catholics. The next Conclave must choose whether to go along with course he has set or to draw back. For many liberals like the St Gall mafia the question must be whether they are confident Francis can push forward their agenda or whether he will destroy it and the Church.
*'Great Reformer' with Alexander Borgia was greeted at the beginning of his Papacy, he turned out to be something quite different.
15 comments:
Or you could say Pope Francis is doing exactly what Cardinal Ratzinger said could be done in his 1996 book "Salt of the Earth". Concerning the question: is discussion of this question still open (Holy Communion for divorced and remarried) he said" The principles have been decided, but factual questions, individual questions, are of course always a possibility" (p.207). And concerning subjective guilt which Francis has based the discernment of mortal sin on, its no different to several CDF documents from the time of St John Paul II "The moral norm of Humanae Vitae" and Homosexualitis Problema, and going further back Persona Humana from 1975. A reading of those documents proves without any doubt-as does the Catechism for that matter, that mortal sin will not always be present in every case. Some will, others will not. Its far too simple and totally unjust to bracket everyone the same. I know for a fact that plenty of conservative and traditionalist priests over here and in the States have been doing this for decades. That is authentic moral theology being applied to complex lives that allows the truth to be manifest, even if the absolute letter of the law says otherwise.
Stephen Walford
Article 8 of the Lateran Treaty obliges the Italian state to frown on public expressions or acts of disrespect to the person of the Sovereign Pontiff. Perhaps a 1 euro fine is in order.
One thing I can say is that straightforward orthodoxy doesn't work with this Pope, neither does requesting a simple yes/no answer, and increasingly even keeping your head down doesn't work....it just makes you an easy low profile target to squash. But ridicule does seem to get under his skin and touch a nerve. I expect this line of attack to increase. WRT the video, all I can say, if music can work to push forward the agenda of Arius, it certainly can be for more orthodox purposes.
Pope Francis definitely has done a lot of destruction and bullying and pushed his people into high places. The next conclave will definitely be interesting power play. I see three possible alternatives:
(1) The election of an "Anti-Francis" like Cardinal Sarah or Cardinal Burke with a strong restorationist mandate, and because so much has been damaged, it can be remade better than before, without the "Spirit of Vatican II" errors that crept in or the St Gallen mafia influence.
(2) Conclave manipulation by the Synod manipulators to elect another Bergolian, which will be vigorously contested and may either result in a prolonged conclave or a Papacy that is so hobbled by resistance; I'm sure more than a few bishops are keeping their heads down until this Papacy ends, but with another Francis-like Pope, they may be fed up to the point of rebellion.
(3) Outright schism with the possibility of two papal claimants to the Chair.
My guess is that (2) will be attempted but (1) will prevail with the help of the Pope John Paul II Cardinals, Pope Benedict XVI Cardinals, and the Pope Francis beaten Curia.
Francis is putting up walls between himself and the Truth. Catholics are increasingly blessed, thanks to his candid remarks that warn us to beware of dialogue with the Devil even as he chats on, with waking up to what Catholic Faith and true mercy really mean.
Mercy is not "Never having to say you're sinning." No more than love is not, as the tired old '70's flick Love Story promoted, never having to say you're sorry.
Love is saying sorry and mercy is having the compassion to point out that which is sinful so that that which inflicts deadly wounds can be removed.
Pray for Francis, that he discovers his contradiction to the few truths he does speak. And thank God for this pontificate that is teaching by way of "Don't let this happen to you!"
Pope St. Celestine V [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03479b.htm] resigned and Canon Law allows for the free resignation of a pope [Can. 332 §2. - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P16.HTM].
I loved the song! Maybe these are the ways to get this mess sorted out. I see that "Eccles is saved" tells us that the Pope is going to issue a new Bible with loose-leaf pages so that bits can be added and taken out as the situation demands...well, "that's Amoris"!
Anil, the time to start really worrying is whenever Francis announces his retirement, or else announces a 'reform' to how a Pope is elected. If he introduces a 'simple majority' vote to elect the next Pope this would indicate to me that Francis and his supporters have counted their chickens and are supremely confident that they will return Francis 2. If a man such as Cardinal Sarah were to be elected this would be a cause for great rejoicing. But only for maybe a day. A vain hope for safety are the innumerable Bishops who thus far have remained silent. Fiddling while Francis is burning Rome. The undeniable reality is that the church is de facto in schism. Therefore, unless the next orthodox Pope has the complete public backing of orthodox bishops, and has the courage to state the faith and pronounce the required anathemas, we are in for a long protracted game of Papal Thrones. Fr.Ray if the Church is dead was the cause of death its tolerance of perfidious prelates? How long must we wait before somebody of substance will oppose Pope Francis to his face? What will it take before the very stones cry out?
Thank you for this comment, which says it all. Concerning the next conclave we have to hope for the best-a good traditional cardinal, who will have a lot of restoration work.
This is not going to be a long papacy. Looking forward, his successor will either be someone in the mould of Benedict, or of Francis, or of someone who tried to pull opposing factions together. It is possible to put odds on the different outcomes.
An orthodox pope will face the same problems as Benedict, all the way down to the level of bishops. Another Francis will continue the process he has set in train. A unifier will be torn by the factions.
Whilst this is happening, things are not standing still at a local level. It is easy to forecast numbers of priests in five, ten and fifteen years time. Parishes are going to close or be forced to share priests. Those few parishes which have resisted the general trend of decline will be confronted with reality when their present incumbents move, retire or die.
What then?
Anil Wang, I just saw your comment, which is much the same as my own.
A "Cardinal Sarah" would be eaten for breakfast if elected. A Francis II is the most likely outcome.
Either sort of pope is likely to generate schism. The next conclave is going to be difficult, to say the least. I wonder if we have not come to the end of the road. The situation is unprecedented in 2000 years.
Dear "thewarourtime.com",
Celestine abdicated and renounced the title, left Rome and lived as a hermit. Pope B16 didn't "actually" resign. He gave up the "active ministry". He thinks and almost everyone else thinks he's a type of Pope. He wears the outfit, still has the title, lives in the Vatican. We Have "two popes". That's not possible. Something is terribly wrong!
Francis will go down in history as an arch-modernist who greatly damagedHoly Mother Church.His insane ramblings and insane exhortations will be examined and ridiculed as an example of the modernist principle of obfuscation,denial,and contempt for the Tradition of the Church.At the moment he is still in the Vatican, but,his Fall is coming and it will be big!Holy Mother Church will recover and Francis will be remembered with dread as to the effects of wilful contempt for Christs teachings.
We don't have history anymore. Francis will face Christ the Lord, our Bishop. In flesh. Maybe he the pope is honest and it all is a missunderstanding. Or maybe...maybe.. he is just the fruit of the Jesuits no pun intended. This is it, we have to accept the end has been established by God and fear nothing. The Apocalypse says this and that but St. Peter says will come when He wishest. No signs. Will the Church be right or wring? The NT says nothing on this except that the true Church will be His bride. Let us rejoice.
I think the HF has simply carried the (catastrophic and ruinous) ideas of JP2 to the next, logical, stage. If the Assisi...events, let's call them, are tolerable as Catholicism and are worthy of a supposed Saint, then it is really is straining at a gnat to complain of Catholic-Lutheran 'intercommunion' if one can swallow the camel that stomps on Papal teaching against indifferentism and syncretism. The HF is merely following the thoroughly bad example of his recent predecessors - his novelties, are the legitimate offspring, not the bastard spawn, of theirs. The bad ideas of those predecessors have consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost on the PF's watch. To assail him with accusations, and not the real architects of the mischief, is beneath contempt, as well as unfair and illogical.
There have always been walls around cities. Or the equivalent. They are Natural,
"Godspede cried the Watch as the gatebolts undrew", and that was good news.
They became more important after the Islamic Heresy beset us.
Today the concept of walls has been abandomned indeed even dismissed
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