“I could see myself going to jail possibly at some point over the next 15 years, if God spares me, if I speak out,” said Archbishop Tartaglia, the newly appointed Metropolitan of Glasgow, speaking of "gay marriage" recently.
Of course before that happens we will have lost our right to marry anyone, have had our schools and charitable status taken away from us. Catholic parents who teach their children the faith will have been accused of "hate crimes" and will have had their children taken away from them, lest they too be infected with even so much as a "thought crime".
That of course that may well happen in barbaric Scotland but in pleasant England and Wales, I suspect things will be quiet different. We, clergy and people, are a little more nuanced, more diplomats than warriors, a little less certain of what is down the road, more inclined to negotiate our position, gently to persuade, use our influence, and if that fails we just might unleash the full fury of our rage in a strongly worded, but not alienating or critical, letter to the The Times by whatever department of Eccleston Square is responsible relationships with sexual, and other, minorities.
Why are things so different then?
18 comments:
And the media are in pursuit of him because of an answer to a question, months ago, about the high death rates anong men living the 'gay' lifestyle.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/glasgow-s-archbishop-elect-links-mp-s-death-to-gay-lifestyle-1-2428847
I have read that 50% of American men in active homosexual relatioships are dead by the age of fifty.
If this were true of American Catholic Priests, the media would be all over the story. But the silence over the deadly results of the gay lifestyle are not discussed.
For a rather hesitant response to a specific question on early deaths among active homosexuals, the Bishop is being pilloried on BBC Scotland and in the Press.
Jim Roche
ps our Parish Priests asked us all to say the Prayer to the Holy Spirit for the ArchBishop-elect at the end of the Prayers of the Faithful. We did gladly.
pps the Recessional Hymn was 'Faith of Our Fathers' We belted it out!
At the risk of attracting cliché labels: we live in strange times.
If we do become the 'straight' minority then our voting power might be sought by politicians - they will do anything for the votes of minority groups... the Power-of-the-Cross then...albeit on ballot papers.
We are no longer allowed to say what we really think without being accused of something or other.
Our Vote is secret to a certain extent so we can show them what we really think come the next General Election.
As for the media pursuing the Archbishop-elect, he only has himself to blame by speculating about a particular individual, as well as making an unverifiable statistical point.
To quote a certain Duke of Norfolk from a certain film "this isn't Spain, you know. This is England."
Francis Cardinal George, Abp of Chicago, recently said in an interview about the increasing dangers of being publicly Catholic in the US, 'I expect to die in my bed. But I expect my successor might well die in prison, and his successor might be put to death.'
Amfortas
The 'unverifiable statistical point' is from me rather than the Bishop.
But you can verify the information yourself should you choose.
And his remarks were made in April? but only publicised on the day of the announcement.
Jim
Fr, until you, and other bloggers who bewail the supposed attack on religious freedom, also acknowledge the spectacular own goal made by archbishop-elect Tartaglia in his ill-judged remark on the death of David Caims, you remain open to the charge of selective moralising. The remarks were not merely counter-productive, they were positively ignorant and unjust in themselves.
Fr Mark,
I live in Brighton, it has the highest gay population nationally, there is also an incredibly high suicide rate among young males, there is an extremely high rate of STDs, including HIV and AIDS.
Obviously none of these things are connected, only a homophobe would suggest such a thing.
Well, I think he was quite right to comment on the culture of silence surrounding the consequences of a gay lifestyle but wrong to name an individual. He may know more than he says, of course, but if the information is not public knowledge it is really up to the family to make it known. Anyway, no doubt he's learned his lesson and I look forward to his robust defence of marriage and the family in the future.
'Consequences of a gay lifestyle'
Stastistics can mean anything and its intersting to note that the '50% of gay men dead by 50' comes from 'conservative' organisations with a overt or covert religious agenda. Hardly the most objective of sources.
The 'culture of silence' exists only in the minds of conspiracy theorists.
One might also note that one of the reasons for the hign number of male teenage suicides is the pressure to conform to the heterosexual expectations of their peers, elders and religious blogs like this one.
Amfortas, don't you think it is interesting that the statistical point is unverifiable?
A quick google will find official life expectancy statistics for married vs single, for men vs women, for rich vs poor, for those with mental or physical disabilities, comparing countries and even counties; almost anything.
Given the huge amount of statistics collected and published by governments, it is odd that this one is not available.
The statistic referred to, that in the US, sexually active gay men die at the average age of 50 dates back to a discredited study undetaken in 1997 based on a compilation of obituaries and death notices in various gay and community newspapers. The methodology has been savagely criticised and the author had to resign from the from the American Psychological Association. No reputable scientific publication will include his anti gay studies. The quality of his research may be appreciated by another conclusion that lesbians are 330 times more likely to be killed in car accidents than straight women.
For further information type in 'Paul Cameron Gays' into Google and particularly look at the report from the US Southern Poverty Law Centre.
Perhaps the reason why there is such a silence about the comparative lifespan of gay and straight men is that there are no reputable comparable statistics and that there is in fact no difference. If there is a conspiracy it is by those who have an agenda to spread lies based on spurious research and repeat what ever falsehoods they find useful for their own purposes.
In contrast, research shows that lesbians have a longer life expectancy than the average, as well as a lower rate of sexually transmitted diseases than both gay men or heterosexual males/females. By the logic stated in this post, the state should be promoting lesbian lifestyles.
One of the reasons for shorter life expectancies of gay men is the higher suicide rate among younger gay mean - the reason that has been shown is the unsupportive and negative attitudes towards homosexuals. Greater tolerance and acceptance towards gay men would therefore increase this group's life expectancy.
I don't agree that this is a taboo unspoken topic. There has in fact been a lot of research and it doesn't support your or the deluded archbishop elect's views.
Male homosexual activity is incredibly unhealthy and dangerous as has been proven in numerous studies. The main reason being the very high levels of promiscuity together with the nature of the practices themselves. Anyone denying this clear fact is delusional. The homosexual suicide rate is much higher than in the general population in all countries where this has been measured and no difference in rates has been established between the most and the least 'liberal' societies. So the cause is clearly NOT intolerance.
Thank you Richard. As a single, celibate person I look forward to an early death. Does this mean that priests should look forward to an early departure to the life beyond? And StevieD, could you please cite the 'numerous studies'? Why do you imagine suicide rates are higher among homosexuals (if, in fact, they are)? Perhaps because they live in fear of people like you.
A sneakier way of trying to bring the Church to heel would be the government deciding to sequester Church bank accounts. People may recall the Heath government applying this to the unions round about 1973. By this means the sequestee could not have access to funds. No bills could be paid; nor could wages be paid to employees.
The Coop Bank carried out an even dirtier trick against a Christian Group whom they accused of 'homophobia'. Without warning they just stopped the bank account and the group suddenly found that their cheques bounced and all direct debits and standing orders were stopped.
I certainly won't have anything to do with the Coop these days.
"Homophobia" is a wonderful word which suggests that anyone who criticises the practice of homosexuality is in the grip of an irrational obsession as there is no such thing as a rational Christian, Jewish, or Moslem , or even Atheistic Darwinian case against it. That this is the situation is an example of prejudice and adhering to it consistently is bigotry. Words
indeed are two-edged swords.
"Islamophobia" can be criticised on the same grounds.
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