Thursday, November 17, 2011

Death of Catholic England

This day is the anniversary of the death of Reginald Cardinal Pole, the last of the Plantagenets, the last of the line of Augustine, the last Archbishop of Canterbury.
On same day Queen Mary died and thus died Catholic England!

Pray for their souls


gemoftheocean said...

It's also Fr. Blake's birthday -- so here's to you Fr. Blake -- a breath of fresh air. The church won't always be dead in England. Think of the hoops Peter had the other 10 had to jump through. Them contra munda.

credidi propter quod locutus sum said...

Well, there was some speculation on England becoming a catholic contry again, before vatican 2. But the post-conciliar adaptation or religious liberty along with everthing else soon put an end to that.
One can't help wondering what would have happened....
Maybe the Isle of saints might have out done her previous exploits.
Pray to our holy mother for our contry, for her Dowry.

Ma Tucker said...

Was he not poisoned?

Pablo the Mexican said...

We will pray for their souls,but I do not believe Catholic England is dead.

I never have been to England, but if I did visit I think I would find Catholic England in the Faith of the little old ladies who carry their Rosaries with them wherever they go, and constantly pray on behalf of Priests, and those most in need of God's mercy.

They are England's dowry.

Like dowries, they sometimes need to be hidden, that they may not be stolen or destroyed.They are the backbone of Holy Priests.

Find a Holy Priest, and if you look around real good, you might find her hidden in the background.

O Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and our most gentle Queen and Mother look down in mercy upon England, thy dowry, and upon us who greatly hope and trust in thee.


JARay said...

If it is your birthday Father then Many, Many Happy Returns.
Just one day out!
Ah well!

Terry said...

Will say a prayer for them but Happy Birthay, Father! Many happy returns.

Gigi said...

I feel the Catholic Church in England is very much alive, although maybe "kicking" is indicative of struggle. I'm very aware of the shortage of clergy and the distressing divisions, but surely the Ordinariate in England is a sign of faith and movement and not just survival...
@ Father Ray: a belated Very Happy Birthday! Even if you didn't get anything on your Christies Wish-List, we wanted you to have them!

Conchúr said...

I thought the Cardinal's uncle Edward, 17th Earl of Warwick was the last Plantagenet?

Fr Ray Blake said...

It is being resurrected but the destruction of the structures and culture under Q. Elizabeth and the loss of a valid Espiscopate were indeed a mortal wound.

Fr Ray Blake said...

Didn't the Cardinal outlive his uncle?
The Cardinal was the last direct claimant to the throne.

Conchúr said...

Ah I was going by direct male line descent. I forgot that the Salic Laws weren't used in England. Even so the Cardinal's younger brother Geoffrey had several children.

Pablo the Mexican said...

Saint Edmond Campion.

Queen Elizabeth sold her soul to the Devil for forty years reign.

During her queenship, the Church was heavily persecuted.

I believe in a book on the life of Saint Campion, there is a section describing a dying Queen as the Devil comes to collect her soul.

The manner in which England went from a God loving agrarian society to a money as god industrial society can be attributed to her unwavering loyalty to Lucifer.

Please correct me if I a wrong.

Under her, a Catholic could be heavily fined and imprisoned for attending the True Mass.


FrBT said...

Fr Ray;Many happy returns. Thank you for this site.Ave Maria Gracia Plena....

mike hurcum said...

England will not rise again until Virgo Potens, England's Dowry for Mary is returned. AKA as Our Lady of


Thank you for this post Father,
I too am born on the the 17th of November, Thanks to you the date now means something to me. Hardly a celebratory title "Death of Catholic England" but if we all do our little bit and continue to raise solid Catholic families or in your case deliver sound Catholic Doctrine. Then we are building something beatiful for God. Our duty is to fight the fight without always knowing the success of failure of our efforts. To who else should we turn?

Patti Day said...

Father, In the USA we hear positive messages that there is reason to hope for a resurrgence of the Catholic faith in England, especially following the visit by Pope Benedict XVI and the establishment of the Ordinate.

Richard said...

Weren't the Plantagenets known as the Devil's Brood?

PeterW said...

Fr Ray, I pray that we Catholics will see a positve change in the faithful in England. I had hoped and still do hope that after The Pope's visit to England there would be a positive reaction - even a surge in The Faith. There is one thing that holds us back and that is in my aged experience - that some of our Bishops are just not towing the line with Rome. There is little Unity from our Bishops with Rome. English Bishops - and not all of them - are doing their 'own thing' There needs to be a lot more discipline implemented to our Bishops. Those Bishops who are loyal to Rome stand out and we know who they are. But unfortunately, there are Bishops who think they know better. Who say the right thing to the Nuncio but do another when back home in their dioceses. There seems to be a distinct lack of respect from some Bishops to Rome. This then flow over into the diocese where the faithful have become without respect for their Leader. Near empty churches, depleting number of weddings. Clergy who are allowed to support same sex blessings. Homosexual priests.
God's Divine Mercy in the Sacrament of Confession now not in fashion. Sunday Mass attendances low, 'clustering of parishes', closing of Churches etc. The list goes on and on. What is the answer? I think that we need to have Bishops where the faithful see and hear and support him in his sound, practical and unity with Rome Leadership. Good governance that is what we need. Our faith has been weakened by three generations of rubbish Catholic Education. Sex abuse scandals committed by memebers of the Clergy. Nuns who have been mentally and physically cruel to children in homes or schools. Clean the slate and start again and put Catholic back with a capital C.
Then England will become Catholic again and Our Lady of Walsingham will bless her children again.

Fr Ray Blake said...

I think it is easy to criticise the Bishops but practically all are good and hard-working and want the best for Christ's Church. Is there not also a problem with priests and lay-people too.
We tend to get what we deserve, if we don't ask for better, we tend to get worse.
If we tolerate bad catechesis, poor preaching, heresy, stupid liturgy, that is what we get. I am sure bishops blame the laity for not making the voice heard.

PJ said...

Fr Blake. Is is not for the Bishops to lead the Laity? Surely -yes? if the laity grumble will they be heard? If the laity are not satisfied with their Bishop, will any one listen? The Bishops cannot blame their flock. The fock can blame a bad and incometant shepherd.

Edward P. Walton said...

In 1960 or 1961, I remember a visit to Canterbury Cathedral and being rather startled to see a wooden hanging bearing a cardinals coat of arms.

a cleric belonging to the cathedral staff walked by and I asked him about the coat of arms. He answered saying, Oh, the RC's recently put that up.It seems I was standing by the tomb of the last Archbishop of Canterbury, Reginald Cardinal Pole. said...

Fr Ray:PJ - would you like to tell us which school you attended? Just asking - - Father.

Mr John A. said...

Fr Blake. Last weekend on the Feast of Christ The King the Archdiocese of Liverpool had The Papal Nuncio as guest. There were a number of functions that His Excellency attended. One of them was an invitation to St Mary's in Leyland, Lancashire, for Vespers. One would expect that on such an occassion the church would be quite busy with the faithful comming from all around that part of the diocese to see and hear The Papal Nuncio and the Archbishop. Sad news, because the numbers were very low. Numbers of laity were low and the number of clergy was outrageously low. It was very disappointing. My brother and his family attend that particular church every Sunday. He was amazed at the blatent lack of support from the clergy and he said there was no support from the youth at all. In fact he rang me on Sunday evening to tell me what he had experienced. He could not get over seeing row upon row of empty pews.
Catholic Liverpool Archdiocese? Maybe once but obviously not now according to my family.
Very sad.
Mr John A.

Joseph Brindle said...

Fr Blake - re Mr John A. I am surprised because I thought that Liverpool were strong catholic scousers. Has this changed so much that Liverpool has lost her catholics? Where have they gone?
Joseph Brindle

PW said...

Fr Ray. Mr John A. paints a rather bleak picture of empty pews etc. In reality this is what some churches are experiencing anyway. Where were the priests of the areas when the Papal Nuncio and the Archbishop were visiting a church. That is very concerning.

Annie said...

Fr Ray. Scousers are a law unto themselves. Love the bones of some of them. My colleagues who come from Liverpool are great.
The question must be what is really happening in Liverpool Archdiocese? Is there a problem that needs to be investigated? Sounds very strange that if The Nuncio is present with the Archbishop in a particular church, then one would expect enormous support from laity and clergy. Not empty pews.

PeterW said...

Fr Ray: Sounds to me like Our Lady of Walsingham needs to visit Liverpool Archdiocese and make some corrections.
I am sure that I saw on the website of Liverpool, they were re -ordering the Sacraments. Now children get Confirmed at 8 years old, then receive First Holy Communion. It does not mention a time for First Confessions. Sounds very bizarre to me. How can a child understand the Sacrament of Confirmation at 8yrs old? Also can you receive First Holy Communion without First Confession. Please help canon lawyers. Thanks.

Bernard O'Callaghan said...

Back in the mid 1960's the Mass attendance in Liverpool diocese was around the 260,000 mark, out of 500,000 Catholic population. It ranked 4th in the country by Mass attendance ratio (52%).

The latest figures for 2010 show 54,000 at Mass on an average October Sunday (when the Mass count is done). This represents the lowest Mass attendance ratio in the country (out of 506,000 Catholics, less than 11% attend).

Allowing for the housebound and sporadic attenders, one would say that 80-85% of Liverpool Catholics are now lapsed or have never practised. Even if you sliced 106,000 off the notional Catholic population (make it 400,000), Liverpool would still be the worst performing diocese by a substantial margin.

The diocese is not all Liverpool, thank God. It includes Warrington new town, Wigan, much of the new developments of Leyland and South Ribble. These are growing, not declining areas.

In Liverpool archdiocese overall you see the remarkable achievement of the Worlock-Rawsthorne catechetical programmes, coupled with the overwhelming emphasis on diluting Catholicism to make it palatable to Anglicans etc., and of course, secularisation of society, TV etc.

It is a test case for the disastrous effects of the post Vatican II liberal Catholic agenda applied to a large and once healthy working-class diocese. Someone should do a PhD on it!

BobT said...

Father, to realise some of the problems that Liverpool is experiencing - have a look at Fr Simon Henry's Blog. Offerimus Tibi
Domine. Now there is trouble in Liverpool!!
BobT said...

Fr Ray. The answer to PeterW is that by the Codes of Canon Law, a child is to be prepared for First Holy Communion by the child making his/her first Confession. Usually about the age of seven (in this country but not in Europe). I don't know of any exceptions to this rule. However, I would suggest that, if the child cannot know right from wrong because of health issues or brain trauma, then there may be an exception. Also, the child to make his/her Frist Holy Communion would have to have enough understanding that they are receiving The Body Of Christ (Blood of Christ). Therefore, one can see that these are complex matters. Each case on its own merits. So Confession before First Holy Communion is the Rule.

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