Tuesday, February 02, 2010

UK Laws Violate of the Natural Law

The Telegraph and most other news sources report have put this spin on the Pope's words:
[The Pope's] strongly-worded intervention in British politics comes after leaders of both the Roman Catholic Church and Church of England clashed with Labour over its flagship Equality Bill, which they fear will make them admit homosexuals to the priesthood or face prosecution for discriminating against them.

Well, he didn't mention anything so churchy, this not about who we can or can't employ, that is just self interest neither did he even speak of homosexuals, let alone condemn them, on the contrary he praised our "firm committment to equality of opportunity for all members of society."
...the effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities to act in accordance with their beliefs. In some respects it actually violates the natural law upon which the equality of all human beings is grounded and by which it is guaranteed.
The newsagencies seem to have ignored, the idea of "natural law", perhaps because it is not a phrase upper most in the Ecclesdon Square vocabulary. Yet for anyone concerned with "justice and peace" issues, it obviously should be.

In what sense does Ms Harman's "Equalities Legislation", which incidently is Labour's only "big idea", violate the natural law?

It bases human rights on sexual orientation, the tendency is therefore to reduce human beings to being a set of genitals attached to a person, rather than seeing first and foremost a human being a mind, a soul who has a certain sexual orientation.

Here in Brighton there is a rertirement home for retired protestant missionaries, they lost funding from the local authority, because they refused to ask their residents every three months to state their sexual orientation.
If one bases legislation and "services" on sexual orientation then one needs to gather data on sexual orientation, in this case data needed to be gathered from the elderly. Presumably if one is providing services to a school, it will be necessary to gather evidence of a childs sexual orientation. How far are we from asking 11 year olds their sexual orientation as they enter secondary school?
Another area were there is a violation of human rights is the whole are of adoption and fostering. We have already lost that battle, but what has happened? Adoption is seen as a "service"in the same sense as a  not to the child, or the child's parents but to those who adopt. The current legislation has removed the rights of a parent to decide on the environment in which he or she will be brought up. It has removed the possibility of a Christian, or for that matter a British muslim parent to ask that their child be brought up in an environment conducive to their faith.
Equalities legislation violates the natural law by removing a parent's right to educate their children. Ed Ball's legislation, supported by Oona Stannard, spokesman for the Bishop's Conference, which will be introduced next year takes away the rights of parents to remove their child from sex education lessons.
The tendency of our government is to erode a parent's rights to educate their children as the wish, replacing parents rights with those of the state to impose its madeup and untested morality.


Dominic Mary said...

I fear, Father, that we are rapidly getting back to the days of Nero, when the only factor which people found of interest or significance is that of sexual gratification . . . and remember what he did to the Christians !

I think perhaps I should start that Lion Taming course now !

pelerin said...

Please, Father, not such small print. You are discriminating against the short sighted!

Red Maria said...

I'm really angry about this. I'm spitting mad about it. I've just exploded on Facebook and am likely to do the same thing on Dolphinarium.

In no short order, I'm squintingly angry that the Orwellian Anti-Equality Bill got as far as it did. Have you seen its content? It is jawdroppingly insanse stuff. I'm not accepting women and babyfathering priests and no one will force me to do so.

I'm angry that the Eccleston Square has as usual totally ruined the lobbying of this bill and walked straight into the secularists' trap. I could see this coming a mile off.

I'm angry - beyond anger, in fact - with anyone who can defend this outrageous authoritarian rubbish. But my time is limited and I can't be bothered to explain to thick people why I'm entitled to think and believe whatever the hell I want to in this day and age. If they can't work out that their rights depend on and are indelibly linked to my rights, then tough.

I am hopping mad at the cynical tactics deployed by anti-religious groups around this.

I'm really angry with Peter Tatchell. I like him a lot personally but sorry, OUTRAGE! is NOT repeat not a representative group. Neither is Stonewall.

I'm furious with Robert Piggott. His reporting on the BBC has been appalling.

I'm enraged that Martin Pendergast has managed to bully my friend Jo Siedlecka into running his propaganda on her website.

I'm incandescent with fury at the anti-Catholic bigotry which has been whipped up by this.

And you know what? I'm not taking it anymore. I'm Polish. We've smashed anti-religious oppression in the past. We're not going to go back to it now.

tempus putationis said...

"It bases human rights on sexual orientation, the tendency is therefore to reduce human beings to being a set of genitals attached to a person"

Yes Father, and this compulsion to reduce humans to the status of Talking Gonads is why the heterodox are so infuriated by continence, whether your priestly or my unmarried continence, or the tender, long-term, altruistic continence which characterises a faithful marriage.

gemoftheocean said...

What do you think the chance is of overthrowing the Ed Balls type people from dictating to you?

British "Tea party?" anyone?

It's not the "natural" state of things for conservative people to demonstrate in the streets, but I believe some of you must get out of your comfort zone, or be overrun by morally evil minded people.

Liberals are the _LEAST_ "tolerant" people.

Ruination of the family and society is what the Left is all about. The want to supplant God with their own warped sense of right and wrong. In many ways they are more dangerous than radical Islam.

George said...

It's not just Labour that supports this Equality Bill, although these are the current imbecilliums in power! Conservatives and of course Liberals are all in it together!

None of them actually LEAD or Govern this Country. No, this green and pleasant land of ours is led purely by the media, public opinions, celebrities, Marie Stopes and depraved lobby groups.

There is not a single Statesman of even mediocre stature in mainstream British politics and while this management of decline remains the status quo, the likes of Harman, Balls, et al will only paddle around the fringes of what it means to lead a Country. Instead of solving economy issues, driving British Business forward across the world, ending conflicts in far off lands and getting our 'boys and girls' out of theatres of War they concentrate on what??? I'll tell you - On ridiculous nonsense such as compulsory sex education for 5 year olds, homosexual indoctrination for all school children, taking parental control away from parents, healthy eating (just take a sneak into a school canteen - YUK!!!) etc... etc... etc...

Meanwhile kids come out of school semi-literate, can't count up the loose change in their pockets and with little or no prospects of a job - now or ever!!!

What a shower. Well 'NUTS' to this legislation and if it means being banged-up for being the 'King's good servant, but God's first' then please dearest St Thomas, give me the strength at that moment of trial to stand up for common-sense, Natural-Law and what is right.

Victor S E Moubarak said...

The Pope is correct. The ball is now in the court of the Bishops and priests of the UK. They should start a petition in all churches.

We're weeks away from an election and politicians take notice once every five years or so.

Over to you ...

God bless.

Elizabeth said...

We do not have the right to try to change the Catholic Church to suit our opinion, we cannot ignore the law of the Church and that of Natural Law. Doctrine and Orthodoxy may be distasteful words in this age of personal freedoms, but as Catholics we do not have the right to try to change the Catholic Church to suit our opinions or wishes. What we actually need to know is what Catholic doctrine says and follow it. ALL OF IT. The Church is not a cafeteria. We are not free to take some things and leave others.
We’re not supposed to blend in and “adapt” our faith to the changing times! We’re supposed to be showing our lost culture the way of true and lasting peace, which can only be found in Christ. It is our responsibility to be firm in defense of the natural and moral law even when it makes us unpopular or hated. If we’re not willing to do that then we are not worthy to be called Catholic?
If someone doesn't believe what the Church believes, doesn't participate in the life of the Church in the Mass and Sacraments or in the work of the Church speaking out against moral abominations or actively seek to grow in the richness of the Church through study and prayer, then can they really call themselves Catholic?
God never changes, no matter how the world may change, what is true and right has always been so. Abortion, gay marriages …. have always been wrong.
It is society that needs to correct its thinking and it is the duty of our Bishops to WAKE UP and teach the Catholic Faith in England.

Gregory the Eremite said...

Hey Red Maria - you sound like my wife this morning after she listened to the "reporting" of the Pope's address on the BBC!

George said...

Red Maria - I'm of Polish background also. I suggest you crack open a bottle of ice-cold Wyborowa Wodka and toast the coming persecution! They don't stand a chance - the war is won.


Jane said...

I've just spotted this.

Petition to Support POPE'S VISIT TO UK Link at Chris Gillibrand's 'Catholic Church Conservation'. Clearly trouble is expected from some quarters. I've just signed. Only 6 signatures so far.

We have just over 7 months to make this really decisive. We are asled to advertise the petition on our own blogs and among our friends.

Fr Ray Blake said...

Sorry if you tried reading this post earlier, it developed a glitch

Londiniensis said...

Red Maria, George, I don't like Wyborowa. Will Dębowa, or even Nalewka Orzechowa, do?

On a serious note, this is one for the Christians and the Muslims acting together. The Government will smirk at Williams, politely smile at Sentamu, and totally ignore our bishops, but they will sit up and start sweating if serious senior Muslims start protesting.

The Bones said...

Let battle commence.

Et Expecto said...


Chris Gilibrand at Catholic Church Conservation has a petition in support of the Holy Father. Could you provide a link to it?

me said...

I deliberately voiced, out loud today,due to the news about the Pope and secular thinker's reactions, on the way home,from Tescos, in the street, to a woman, walking her dogs and telling me, that she had a tooth abscess(I had four last year, so identified with her discomfort)that I would pray for her, and I have.

What struck me, was her look, she grimaced, slightly, but said "Oh Ok" or something like that(God forgive me, if it was thank you)and hurried off.

I used to be ashamed when my father would mention God in conversation, when I was a teenager. Now, I am my father's daughter, repeating his words, because I have found them to be the truth.

Not through any virtue, through suffering. Suffering always makes one keen to learn, for self seeking reasons(in my case, any search for goodness stems initially from self seeking), but...Our God is good, He will take our left overs and turn them into something good for His Kingdom.

We(I) must pray, for a martyr's strength, and spirit.

Jane said...

Et expecto:

I mentioned this earlier. there's a link to Chris Gillibrand on this blog I think, i.e. at Catholic Church Conservation',and on several others, including my own 'Thoughts from an Oasis in French Catholicism'.

Pelerin has let me know that there's also a petition against the Pope's visit which already has many signatures. This really bodes ill. If we want to see our Holy Father in England, we'd better pray and sign!!! Sadly, I'm beginning to wonder whether for his own safety, he perhaps should stay away. And that would be good publicity in a way, because it would show the world beyond a doubt what has become of 'Land of Hope and glory, mother of the free'.

Ssorry to be so negative. I'm just too upset at the moment, so will shut up.

Red Maria said...

My friends,

I say to you in all seriousness that this is not a matter for levity. I wish it were.

We are facing attacks on religious liberty the like of which have not been seen for centuries. Don't think the oppressive and Orwellian Equality Bill has gone away. It only has for now. It'll come back again.

The question now is this: what are we going to do about it?

Let me put it plainly. If we aren't about our business, if we don't organise ourselves to defend our democratic religious rights, then they will be taken away from us. It really is as simple as that.

Don't for a moment think Call me Dave will ride forth on his charger to defend our liberties. Remember how he sold out our adoption agencies? I'm sure he'd do the same with this Orwellian Equality Bill in a heartbeat.

The reason, by the way, that politicians, most of whom really, let me assure you, don't give a damn about these things, is that they don't know we exist and they've forgotten that is we, their constituents who are their masters, not these miscellaneous lobby groups with their press releases and expert knowledge of the corridors of power who don't represent anyone but themselves. They don't know we exist because we haven't told them that we do.

Those of us who come from Eastern European backgrounds know that conscience rights are some of the most precious rights we have because they protect what goes on in our heads, our thoughts, our beliefs, our ideas. We know far better than our Western co-religionists, who have been lucky enough not to have tasted the gall of persecution for many years, what it means if our conscience rights are destroyed: in time all our rights will be eroded.

For as sure as eggs are eggs, conscience rights are the canary in the mine, which flag up the potential dangers to all our other rights.

You don't have to allow the Church to face a fresh persecution for supposed violation of equality laws. The ability to stop it is in your hands.

So let us not laugh, my friends. Serious times deserve a serious response.

Red Maria said...

Battle? I don't want a battle. I don't want to see people of faith compelled to act against their consciences or face the oppressive consequences. I don't want to see the bishops of my Church prosecuted for breaching lunatic laws. I don't want any of these things.

I weary of battle. I'm sick of this. I think the world has gone mad and wonder why it won't go and see a shrink.

Volpius Leonius said...

America accepts parents who wish to home school their children and are persecuted by their governments because of it as refugees, if this government does anything more to take away parents rights to educate their children at least we can seek asylum in America.

Red Maria said...

Volpius Leonius, I don't want to seek asylum in America. I have a great affection for that country and its people who liberated my grandmother from the Nazi concentration camp in which she was incarcerated but I want to stay here.

It's my home. Why should I leave it? Why can't I be free to live my life and practice my religion without the pastors of my church being harassed for Orwellian thoughtcrimes?

Red Maria said...

And by the way, I will NOT accept priestesses until the Holy Father does, ie never.

Neither will I ever accept babyfathering priests.

I won't.

And that's that.

nickbris said...

The only paper worth reading on this particular subject is "metro".It is not mentioned.His Holiness is being castigated by the xenophobic infidel garbagemongers and the rest of them have taken the bait as they were meant to.

Anonymous said...

Well Red Maria,

Stop being stupid.

Eastern rite priests are often "babyfathering".

You're just a pride-fuelled Latin rite catholic of the type who has typically, and irrationally, persecuted Eastern-riters, aren't you???

Look how badly the episcopate of Poland has historically treated them.

+ Albrecht von Brandenburg

Elizabeth said...

Dear Red Maria
Everything you have written is true but what we really need to do is pray. It is because so few pray that the atrocities around us are multiplying.
I have been to Mass where I have been so angry that I can feel the anger eating me up. But after time in front of the Blessed Sacrament the anger slowly begins to lift (I hasten to add very slowly)
The love of God brings with it the Cross and the more we love God the heavier and greater is the Cross.

You are too blessed to be stressed.

Michael Petek said...

Volpius Leonius and Red Maria, the United States has in fact given political asylum to a German homeschooling couple who were threatened with punishment if they didn't send their children to school.

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany under one of Hitler's laws.

I wrote a few years ago in German to an official in Paderborn about this, only to receive a snotty reply from an odious-sounding official.

Were it not for the fact that my mother was German I'd have been irresistably tempted to write back to him to ask him who won the war!

Red Maria said...

Anonymous, I don't think you understand what the term "babyfather" means.

It's NOT a reference to priests who are married with children.

Quite the contrary,in fact.

"Babyfather" is a Jamaican term, not infrequently used in derogatory sense.

A "babyfather" is a nogoodnik, a useless man, someone who would once have been referred to as a "cad" in England.

Babyfathers sire children by lots of different women and abandon them - both the women and the children.

Hence a babyfathering priest would be someone who was in an adulterous relationship, someone who'd abandoned his wife and the mother of his children to shack up with someone else.

See here for a definition of "babyfather".

George said...

Londoniensis... 'Red Maria, George, I don't like Wyborowa'.

How dare you Sir! And to suggest inferior liquor is a double insult!

Pistols at dawn?


fidelisjoff said...

Take a look at John Smeatons blog for how the bishops of England and Wales signed up for rights based on sexual orientation as far back as 2005 and wished their imposition on every Catholic institution. It is time for a change!

Red Maria said...

Come on George and everyone else. Let's get thinking about what we're going to do about this.

I warn you it hasn't gone away.

Diane Korzeniewski said...

Oh Fr. Ray,

I'm going to be cleaning up the coffee that sprayed with great force from my mouth upon reading your very frank description of what natural law is not.

Give us a warning next te - LOL

Excellent explanation.

Diane Korzeniewski said...

Oh Fr. Ray,

I'm going to be cleaning up the coffee that sprayed with great force from my mouth upon reading your very frank description of what natural law is not.

Give us a warning next te - LOL

Excellent explanation.

Londiniensis said...

My Dear George, Under the Codex, as I am being challenged, I have choice of weapons. However, I have no wish to kill you, as no doubt you will be a useful ally in the struggle to which which Red Maria is drawing our attention, and which we ignore at our peril.

Red Maria also makes the point that the Tories under their current leadership have swallowed all the "feelgood equality and non-discrimination" nonsense and we can expect no institutional support from a future Tory government.

Instead of doing their best to merge into the multicultural background our bishops must stand up, face social martyrdom, and become a Sign of Contradiction.

It is imperative that we capture the intellectual and media high ground. Where is our Sheen, our Neuhaus, our Copleston, our Chesterton?

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