Most clergy are now quite convinced the old ICEL translations are indeed a "lame duck", and really quite inferior to what is going to replace them. I confess, I have used the priest's parts, the reaction of the faithful, if they noticed is quite favourable.
I would be interested to know who else has used them or is using them, if you 'fess up with a name of a priest or a place I shan't publish your comment: I understand people's fear of ICEL heavies. I am just interest in how widespread there use is.
19 comments:
A few months ago I noticed that the priest in the church I attend on Sundays started using "Blessed are those..." rather than "Happy are those..."
As well as this (as a server) I have heard some in the congregation responding to "The Lord be with you" with "And with your Spirit".
What is it Father Z says? Brick by brick?
Here's what I posed to Fr. Z when he asked the same thing:
Ben
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Bishop Morlino (of Madison) has been using the corrected translation of the Roman Canon, EP-I, at all ordination Masses now. I believe he started doing it last year, but I may be wrong on that. Basically since the text for the EPs was finished and approved.
After the sanctus, he jumps to the NT, then we use the lame duck memorial acclamations, and finish the Canon with the NT.
All the concelebrants have hand outs that we put on their seats with the corrected concelebrant parts, so that’s not an issue.
After the Per Ipsum, and the chanted latin Pater Noster, he switches back to the lame duck translation for the rest of the Mass (except possibly the Prayer after communion, which I believe was already retranslated at an earlier date with the rest of the Rite of Ordination).
To be clear, this is only the Canon that is being used, and only at ordinations. That’s all so far in Madison… til’ November…
As I said above, I believe that the Rite of Ordination Book has already been retranslated and approved, so if that is the case (and I think it is), the collect, preface, whole Rite of Ordination itself and the prayer after communion were also used according to the corrected translation.
I may be wrong, but I’m fairly sure that it has been.
Father, As a matter of obedience, you should not use the new translations until the sanctioned date. To do otherwise seriously weakens any criticism you may express regarding the lack of obedience of the more avant garde members of the Church and opens you up to the legitimate accusation of being hypocritical.
parepidemos - Surely if a Priest has received permission from his Bishop to use to new translation, then he is being obedient?
Are we allowed to reply 'And with your spirit' yet?
Oh dear. There's always one (who can't tell Stork from butter).
Fr Bruce Harbert, was using many of them back in the 1990's when he was lecturing at Oscott College. Amazing to think that they will now be official translations. Mind you, glad that his celebration of coffee tables masses in students bedrooms with Jewish Matzah bread was not also approved.
Those of us living on borrowed time may have a problem.
Some of us are still abstaining from meat on Friday because it was dinned into us in our most vulnerable formative years.
Hopefully one day they will get it right.
Listening to Lord Bragg droning on about The King James Bible is enough to put anybody onto strong drink.
Words, words words. How about a little constructive theodicy? Natural disasters take priority over the niceties of new translations. God Rules OK but could do with an update on earthquakes in the plan of things.
Robert,
My prayers might be more useful than my blogging about it.
Why don't you pray rather than read posts on the New Translations.
Pray! don't winge that people aren't writing about it!
Archbishop Socrates B. Villegas of Lingayen-Dagupan, Philippines, has begun the gradual introduction of the new English translation: http://rcald.org/?p=321. I'm not sure what decision the CBCP (bishops' conference) made at their meeting in January about when to introduce the new translation nationwide except that they plan to have the Missal printed in the Philippines rather than importing it from the USA.
In my opinion, English is used far too much in the liturgy in the Philippines, especially in the cities. It's not the mothertongue of anyone except of some of those who control the country.
Though I can't wait to leave 'from east to west' behind, I'll wait till the bishops give the go ahead for the use of the new translation.
Thank you for your response.
I can't help thinking about the reaction to the Lisbon earthquake and tsunami of 1755 which lead to real doubts and confusion- Voltaire, David Hume etc.
Each disaster threatens my faith and, living in a situation where questioning would not receive a ready response, perhaps you might refer me to some literature that tries to look at theodicy, in particular questions on natural disaster and God's love. Thank you.
Pelerin, Please, let me be clear: I believe that, apart from a few rather clumsy expressions, the new translation is better than what is currenty in use and I look forward to its implementation.
However, an individual bishop or priest does not possess the authority to change a decision made by Rome. It is a matter of obedience not preference. We cannot criticise the 'liberal' factions for being disobedient when we ourselves do the same; it is hypocritical. We must be patient and put aside our own egos.
georgem: I find your comment to be trite. Not long ago, Fr Blake posted a link to an interview with Cardinal Burke, a man who champions the EF and the new translation. In the interview the Cardinal is asked about using the new translation ahead of time. He clearly states that he will not do so until the approved date. I am quite happy to be in the company of people like Burke, a man who understands obedience over preference.
Robert,
I am not much into 18th cent. philosophy, I don't kmow if someone else can help you.
Robert, I hope this will be of some help.
Quite simply, if the Earth did not have internal heat, it would be frigid and incapable of supporting human/animal/plant life. Indeed, the conditions for the existence of life are extremely complex and finely balanced. We need such things as hurricanes to move warm air around the planet, volcanoes to release internal heat and earthquakes to release built-up stress in the tetonic plates. By living in areas where such things occur, we place ourselves in danger. It is not God's fault in any way.
Many Muslims, some fundamentalist Protestants - and sadly some Catholics - believe that natural disasters are a punishment from God. This was a common belief at the time of Christ when people thought that God actively controlled the minutest things such as a single rainfall or whether or not a person was born disfigured (a punishment on the parents). This is not the Catholic position.
Jesus Himself rejects such narrow thinking in three places: Matthew 5:45 when He speaks about the rain falling upon the just; in Luke 13:4when He speaks about those upon whom a tower fell; in John 9 where he dismisses the concept that a man has been born blind as a punishment.
If I may make a comparison. Could God have made creatures capable of making only right choices? The answer is "yes" but these creatures would not have free will, and thus be moral robots. They would not be human. (Whilst those in Heaven retain free will, they eternally choose to embrace God). Free will can be messy, but without it, we wouldn't be us. The geological make up of this Earth can be messy, but without it we would not exist.
God is Love itself, and Love never seeks pain or distress to be caused to the beloved.
Happy to 'fess up publicly. I have been using the Roman Canon in the new translation since last August. Now starting to use the other parts since they are available on wikispooks. Will introduce the people's responses along with everyone else in September.
Nobody has really noticed much.
Thank you to "parepidemos".
After prayer and your thoughts I recollected the passage that says every hair of your head is numbered so we can only have faith that each person that is lost through natural disaster is more than a statistic.
It was good to receive the supportive response.
Robert, the eath is made of plates. These places move constantly. We don't even notice most days. Japan is in the Ring of Fire. Earthqaukes are a normal part of life there, Sadly,this quake turned out to be a monster sized one but Japan is rich and modern. They will recover. Let not your Faith be shaken because of geology.
Robert, you may or may not find this article, written after the St Stephen's Day tsunami by my fellow Columban, Fr Sean McDonagh, helpful: http://eapi.admu.edu.ph/eapr005/mcdonagh.htm
Thank you Fr. Coyle for the reference to the article. It is very relevant to the current tragedy. Perhaps some extracts might be considered for Fr. Ray's blog? I certainly found it helpful.
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