some personal views for Catholic readers
"Tony Blair, the former British prime minister, is amongst the speakers at next month’s Rimini meeting on “knowledge and faith”...Oh boy! Like, what does he know and where (or which variety) is his faith?Sounds like the Rimini meeting is THE ONE to miss folks!!!! I mean who the heck are the Communion and Liberation movement? Never heard of them before and anything which includes the word 'Liberation' in its name is already suspect in my books and stinks to high heaven! Let 'em have him - who cares!
As you have never heard of the Communion and Liberation Movement, try "google search" and you will find the following link under http://www.clonline.org.PaxVM<><
PS in addition, an news item under http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=8961 may provide some more informationPaxVM<><
I've always said to people contemplating going on a Cruise "take a wander round the local POUND Shop and ask yourself if you could bear a Holiday with this lot"Well I would say something like that to anybody thinking of becoming a Catholic but instead of the POUND SHOP I would say look at the comments on this BLOG.It is a wonder that the Churches are not completely empty.We are supposed to be showing the WORLD that we are CATHOLIC and above reproach,when we went to school we always considered ourselves to be better that all the rest and tried our best to look it.
It seems to be increasingly beyond doubt that Tony Blair has the potential to be the most dangerous man to emerge in Europe in centuries, and the credibility being given to him and his wife by the Catholic Church is deeply disquieting. Pray very hard that the Republic of Ireland once again vote 'No' to the European Treaty on 2nd October. Pray too for those English clerics who were instrumental in his (mal)formation, as given the sheer magnitude of his internal conviction, they bear a heavy responsibility for letting this particular cuckoo into the Nest.
Thanks for those links Victoria. OK, on the face of it without having the time to go delving too deeply at the moment (I most certainly will when time allows)the CL Movement appears to be in line with the Holy Father.So then, tell me why do they go ahead and drop this massive clanger by having Mr Blair as a speaker?The only 'Liberation' he favours is to be 'liberated' from what he percieves as the oppressive, outdated and outmoded Teaching of Holy Mother Church on soooo many issues that he would be better off founding his own religion! He and his wife are completely and on public record, at odds with fundamental, non-negotiable and inviolable Truths of the Catholic Faith - he will 'preach' on the rights to reproductive health (PRO-ABORTION), the right to a dignified death (ASSISTED SUICIDE = EUTHANASIA), the many faces of the 'modern family' (HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE AND ADOPTION). Need I go on! He and many others like him want to reduce the influence of the Catholic Church to a mere social institution that supports charitable works (Government approved and rubber stamped only), while ignoring and in many cases suppressing (by using the legal system)the Voice of the Catholic Church to proclaim the Truth!When there are so many good Catholic speakers out there such as Professor Scott Hahn, Fr John Corapi, Fr Benedict Groeschel, Raymond DeSouza, Joanna Bogle, Fr Tim Finnigan, Barbara McGuigan, Dr Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Daphne McCloud, Gerry Metatics etc... why choose Tony Blair, who will only sow seeds of doubt and question instead of strong affirmation of the Truth of the Catholic Faith???
And your point exactly Nickbris is.........?
Prayer For Patience and GentlenessBestow on me, O Lord, a genial spirit and unwearied forbearance;a mild, loving, patient, heart;kindly looks, pleasant cordial speech, and mannersin the exchange of daily life;that I may give offence to none,but as much as in lies live in charity with all men.Johann Arndt, (1555-1621)PaxVM<><
Nickbris. If I were a potential convert I would be more worried about moving into a Church that had in it the sort of rampant snobs that despised pound shop customers. I use pound shops myself, and regularly shop at Netto. Going to school in Mosside didn't exactly carry a huge social cachet, either - although it was a great school. We certainly didn't think we were better than others - though we did end up better educated than many (on paper at least) thanks to generations of Irish nuns whose lives were dedicated to bringing out our potential. If being above reproach was part and parcel of being a Catholic, then I wouldn't need to go to Confession. The gist of the comments on this thread seems to be to cast doubt on the wisdom of CL in inviting TB to speak to a Catholic organisation when his public actions and utterances before and after conversion have not been sympathetic to the Magisterium - to put it mildly. I wouldn't go so far as you did here on 14/4/2008, and say that he is damned because of what he did in Iraq - but a recent convert who presumes to advise the Pope in public on what he is doing wrong, shows a lack of judgment and humility, however attractive the veneer of plausibility of this pretty straight kinda guy. We pound-shoppers are not deceived by slick retail branding - we exercise discernment in all our choices - whether or not we decide to spend our savings on a nice cruise at the end of it.
Victoria - why quote a 'dodgy' lutheran pietist! There's plenty of good solid catholic material which covers the sentiments you are trying to convey.Just got to add this bit:"Johann Arndt was very fond of the Theologia Germanica, a mystical treatise (on the Catholic list of banned books!) believed to have been written in the mid 14th century by a member of the Teutonic Order living in Frankfurt, a prominent mystic of the time, who 'disappeared' in 1327 after being brought to trial by the Inquisition for heresy".Perhaps a similar fate might be fitting for our Tony Blair! ;-)
I will always remember a sermon I once heard about people standing in a bus queue. The preacher asked "Did Christ die for this lot?" He might have asked the same question about the customers in a Pound Shop. The answer would be the same.
My Point GEORGE is ,don't go on a cruise with a load of OICKS,pushing & shoving to save fictitious amount of money.POUND SHOPS are as much of a CON as most cruises.
Perhaps "nickbris" has a point.I am a Cradle, plain, simple ordinary RC.My quote was posted with good intentions. I am not very good at articulating my own feelings.I came across this quote and naivelythought that the sentiments expressed, would convey the appropriate thoughts and feelings.Alas, sadly not and maybe I've misread the original "post"..I am saddened by the tone of the thread and with respect to the Blog Master will refrain from contributing to this particular Blog again.As a relative newcomer,all I can say from my observation is that there is an extreme element of anger, frustration expressed here and on other Blogs which I don't need to mention by name.That is all I wish to say.God bless you all and let's pray for one another (OPI)Pax VM<><
Being tolerant and accepting everyone regardless of their belief as Catholics has got us in the mess we are in. It is due to ignorance that Vatican II was allowed to be misinterpreted. Are we going to allow ignorance to muddle the few remaining Catholics still trying to be true to their Faith by letting the likes of The Blairs loose on them.Angels and Saints protect us.
Dillydaydream - I would go so far, actually, and I would include all the bishops of England with the exception of Bishop Patrick O'Donoghue, because he was the only one who spoke out unequivocally against the Iraq war in line with Pope John Paul II. People who are pro-life cannot keep ignoring illegal wars!!
Speaking of enemies from within - check out my post of today on Mary Robinson.I notice Jimmy Carter is trying to put the boot in too here - one of her "Elder" buddies, of the "chosen" 12!! We're up to our necks in this secularist infiltration which is mimicking the very religion it mocks - and we can't even see it, as our whole society is crumbling around us and we know more about Jordan's love life than what went on on the banks of the river Jordan.
"as our whole society is crumbling around us and we know more about Jordan's love life than what went on on the banks of the river Jordan".Neatly put Epsilon - as they say 'in a nutshell'!God Bless.
Victoria writes "I am a Cradle, plain, simple ordinary RC".No such thing as plain simple ordinary RC!!!! Our Catholic lives are not meant to be 'comfortable' in this world. YOU and I, all of us, are called out of our comfort zones to make a difference in this world to further the Kingdom and proclaim the good News of Jesus Christ, in season and out of season.There is Spiritual Warfare all around us of such magnitude that if we but caught a glimpse of what's going on we would surely shrivel and die! 'We see through a dark glass, dimly' - for good reason and thank God for that!You need to read and inform yourself on these things of which most people are blissfully ignorant.Pope Leo X111 (late 19th Century )had a mystical experience during the Consecration where he witnessed the devil being given a 'hundred years' by God to prove he could destroy the Catholic Church. The Holy Father was in such a state many thought he had died.This terrifying experience led to Pope Leo composing the Prayer to St Michael (not the short version we are familiar with - I hope) but the full blown prayer and exorcism!Vatican 11 saw the removal of these prayers after Mass, no doubt by the very '5th columnists' who knew just how powerful these 'Leonine Prayers' were in foiling the devil's plots and plans.Lest we forget folks - THIS IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT - THE SALVATION OF SOULS. This is why Jesus was sent by The Father to save each and every one of us from the devil 'who prowls through the world seeking the ruin of souls'.Victoria, take up your 'Armour', As St Paul says: "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6, 10-12).Jesus calls us to heroic action to Sainthood - all of us! Let's not shrink away from the Cross.Holy Mary Mother of God, St John and St Mary Magdalen - Pray for us.God Bless.
Dear Victoria'I am saddened by the tone of the thread and with respect to the Blog Master will refrain from contributing to this particular Blog again'.Please continue reading this blog, it is sometimes hard to accept the truth of what is going on around us but with love and perserverence we can learn so much. It is hard to accept being corrected on the blogs, I know that my pride was hurt, but after a little research I realised I was actually wrong and discovered more about my wonderful faith aswell as about myself.The blogs are a true blessing, you will be rewarded and informed if you continue to read them, but by all means you do not need to comment. I will keep you in my prayers.
Victoria - I totally endorse what Elizabeth has said. May God bless you and help you to learn (as I have and am still learning) from these great catholic blogs.
Is "illegal" an arabic word which means "I don't like it"? In the mouths of critics of the War to depose Sadam Hussein it has no reference to any existing law. I don't like the way Mr Blair and New Labour has set aside the traditional morality of all Christendom on matters of abortion and sexual activity outside marriage, but I think it is to his everlasting credit that when faced with an odious dictator , who murdered his subjects, attacked his neighbours, and subsidised suicide bombers, he did not walk by on the other side ,he did something about it. It is a pity he argued his case in terms of immediate threats to Britain, on which it seems all intelligence agancies were mistaken, instead on grounds of getting rid of an odious dictator, but his action was right. The Security Council of the UN, including as it does many undemocratic states is a source of neither morality nor legality.
'Independent' how many times do the facts have to be presented to you that Sadam Hussein was armed by and colluded with The West for years before 'we' decided he was a bad guy to suit our own fossil fuel and strategic positioning needs??
Nickbris - Pound shops - we have three or four in our high street including the 'Daddy of 'em all' the 99p Shop which took over the Woolworth's site when they went bust. Have to say they're better than Woolies ever were! Bought a laser level and electronic 'wall stud/cable finder' for yep, you guessed it, 99p! Haven't used it yet - but WOT A BARGIN!!!!PS - I wouldn't go on a Cruise with Oicks or anyone for that matter!I get sea-sick! :-)
CL are a good bunch. This is rather odd, although they do tend to have politicians of all sorts address them at Rimini. I doubt very much Blair'll be given an easy ride.
As a long time CL member and having been at many Rimini meetings, the idea that having TB speak there is some kind of endorsement of his often misguided politicalpositions does not make any sense. If anything, the Meeting is such an overwhelming event that it will present TB with the biggest challenge he has ever faced to think about the meaning of faith. Who knows, that may teach him something. On the other hand, moralistic condemnation will not achieve anything of the kind.
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